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  1. #31
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    Df will play cars, construction, sports etc with ds, but every few weeks he brings out the mixer and they make a cake mix together. ds loves it! He also sees df help with vacuming/washing etc and me fix and build things too so there really is no stereo types here

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    Oh yeah, my DH and DS bake cakes too. Its great

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by FearlessLeader View Post
    I think the 'nature' argument is far far too simplistic.
    I think when it's argued as being the only reason, then yeah it's too simplistic. I do agree with the above. DS now won't take pink strawberry yogurt pouches to school bc pink "is a girls colour". He refuses to take the purple crunch and sip containers I have bc again purple is a girls colour. It's frustrating to say the least and there is no doubt society shapes kids into gender roles. And in my experience, it's worse for boys. Girls can get away with wearing blue, or playing football. But if a boy wears a pink shirt or wants to do ballet he's told he's a sissy/gay/a girl.

    I guess what I'm saying is I think it's both. I think the reason why boys toys are cars, and plastic tool kits and bikes is bc often (note not always) that's what males have been drawn to in the past. So toy companies over 100 years have catered to that. which then keeps the cycle going where boys have to like blue, or diago bc the marketing is so overt.

    It becomes the chicken before the egg. Are 'boys' toys thus bc that's what boys like and so they fill that niche, or bc it's just what society says they should like? or is it a bit of both. I argue it's both.
    Last edited by delirium; 11-12-2013 at 20:26.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naboo View Post
    Sorry haven't read all the replies. My DH told me he read that rough play between adult men and boys ie wrestling, gives the boys a sense of boundaries which they draw upon later in life. Also things like kicking in the balls is not ok. They look so happy together wrestling I'm happy o go along with that. I get my kis and cuddle time so we're all happy
    That would be from Steve Biddolph's Raising Boys. I have that and DH really liked that idea and has tried to use play wrestling as not only a fun outlet for energy, but a way of teaching DS boundaries and control over his behaviour.

  5. #35
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    I think it's both too. But I think it's a far smaller percentage nature than it seems. I think the social cues we give kids are so subtle that we don't even notice it's happening. So it looks like they are making independent choices when in fact they are picking up on all these social cues. Most 1 year olds are completely genderless in their behavior, but by 2 most are displaying gendered behavior, despite the fact they are all hormonally pretty similar. Yes, boys get a testosterone surge at 4, but this levels out again at 5 until puberty. So I can't see how this accounts for the huge difference in boys and girls behavior. WHY do they play differently at 2? Why at 8? Apart from genitals, children are all essentially biologically the same until puberty.

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    I think unless you want to keep your child shielded from society forever, it's something that is unavoidable really. Also a lot of fathers are going to model behaviour that they learnt growing up. I personally don't understand exactly what the concern is? Hopefully with a 'well rounded' exposure to a variety of different toys and forms of play a child will decide for themselves what they like and don't like.
    Last edited by Star Light; 11-12-2013 at 21:20.

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    Several studies have found male and female brains are different. Certain areas of the brain are larger in men and smaller in women and visa versa. Men tend to use the areas for mobility, logic and spatial ability. Women use communication centers, and memory.

    And this fits with people that feel like they are trapped in the wrong body. Men that truly feel they are women, or women that feel like they are men. If gender (as opposed to sex) was entirely a social construct ( and I know you think it's both as I do), then why do they feel this way? Brain scans have been done on people experiencing this, and found they in fact have the brains of the gender they identify with, not with their genitals. IMO gender is more than a social construction.

    I'm all for giving children lots of choices with as little bias as possible. Cars, dolls, cooking with boys, doing carpentry with girls. But i think just as it's fine for a boy to love Dora, it's ok if he loves Diago too. And the latter doesn't necessarily mean the parents have bought into gender stereotypes. Just that that boy *may* just be 'boyish' by design.

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  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by FearlessLeader View Post
    I think it's both too. But I think it's a far smaller percentage nature than it seems. I think the social cues we give kids are so subtle that we don't even notice it's happening. So it looks like they are making independent choices when in fact they are picking up on all these social cues. Most 1 year olds are completely genderless in their behavior, but by 2 most are displaying gendered behavior, despite the fact they are all hormonally pretty similar. Yes, boys get a testosterone surge at 4, but this levels out again at 5 until puberty. So I can't see how this accounts for the huge difference in boys and girls behavior. WHY do they play differently at 2? Why at 8? Apart from genitals, children are all essentially biologically the same until puberty.
    I think a child's brain is actually wired differently depending on their sex.

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    Delirium I agree with every single thing you said. Are you arguing with me? Me so confused LOL. I agree wholeheartedly! Completely! It's the without bias thing that I'm trying to do here, that's all. I know that I personally would have my OWN assumptions about gender, and show my OWN preferences and gender biases with my kids, and am trying to nut them all out, so I'm aware of them and can address them. That's all. I have no issue with DS liking Diego, I don't have an issue with him liking Diego more than Dora. I just like to think about why he makes those sorts of choices and have those sorts of preferences, I like to think about it so I can try to make sure he (and DD!) make informed and conscious decisions in life. We're all influenced by society, that's not always a bad thing but it's good to be aware of it, right?? I'm not about to start dressing him in a hessian sack, growing his hair and calling him 'x' so he's untainted by gender.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ElastiGirl View Post
    I think a child's brain is actually wired differently depending on their sex.
    But isn't the brain super dooper elastic, especially in children? So couldn't they be wired differently because of social cues? Like how kids are born with the ability to make every sound in every language but by some early age it all drops out until they can only make the sounds of their mother tongue. I'm actually not 100% sure, just interested. I'm going to check out those books you mentioned.


 

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