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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Hmmmm. There are insufficient details in this story for me to make a judgement call. I can picture cases where it would be necessary to sedate a mother and take the baby by ceasarian, I am hoping this is one of those cases. What I can't understand is British authorities not working to repatriate the baby back to Italy to stay with the woman's family (unless there is no suitable family there).
    Even if there is no suitable family, wouldn't it be best for the baby to return to Italy so they can be placed with an Italian family in case the Mum does improve and is able to regain custody?

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    She could have, but surely sedating her and giving a c sect is extreme even in that scenario? Surely keeping her under observation would have been preferable? I don't know, I just can't think of anything other than really unlikely scenarios that would justify it iykwim. Hopefully more details or info comes to light so we can gain a better understanding- and if it's shown this was done outside the law then there needs to be a serious examination of a system that allows this kind of thing to happen.
    Yes I do agree, it's very extreme.

  4. #33
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    Yes, this story is true. I remember something of it last year. The woman, an Italian citizen and resident, did endure a forced C-section under a Mental Health order and her baby was taken from her only to be put into foster care in the UK. All this was done and arranged by Essex County Council under the orders of social workers.

    Even with the assistance of her estranged husband, the Court has refused to hand the child to extended family and is now being put up for adoption.

    The woman has a history of mental illness (bipolar) and apparently a history of not maintaining her medication. She apparently has other children who are in the care of her mother.

    However, in what I have gleaned from reports in England (it is due to be presented to Parliament shortly), I am horrified that the woman's rights have appeared to have been roundly abused. I am equally shocked that a foreign country has been able to successfully violate a citizen of another country. Her family have not been consulted, she was not informed of what was happening to her, she has not been given access to her child and has been forced to re-enter Britain to launch proceedings to get the child back.

    While orders to seize children are not new, I admit I am surprised that given the few facts that are emerging in this case how any further details in this woman's history would justify the treatment this woman has suffered under UK law.

    Meanwhile, two mothers who performed sex acts on their infants and procured their infants for sex acts to be performed on them by the lead singer of UK band LostProphets, still have access to their children. They are further protected by the same UK law in that their names are not allowed to be released meaning they do not have to face their crimes in a public arena.

    The world is a very strange place.

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  6. #34
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    This is appalling. The mother was at risk of breakdown, had had a panic attack while in the UK for a training course, and was sedated and when she awoke was told she'd had a csection and the baby was in care. What a horrific abuse of process. I can only imagine the effect this kind of violation would have on someone, especially someone who's already vulnerable.

    If it was thought necessary, the mother should have at the very least be informed about what was going to happen or if she was not capable of understanding due to her state, then her family should have been informed so they could seek legal advice. To perform a medical procedure on someone without their consent, or their legal guardian's consent (for someone without capacity) is a massive violation, and possibly criminal. And to take her baby too?! I'm astounded this was allowed to happen.

    This is exactly why so many people are scared to seek help for mental issues. Because they're scared they will lose their children, and lose their freedom and autonomy.

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  8. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caviar View Post
    Yes, this story is true. I remember something of it last year. The woman, an Italian citizen and resident, did endure a forced C-section under a Mental Health order and her baby was taken from her only to be put into foster care in the UK. All this was done and arranged by Essex County Council under the orders of social workers.

    Even with the assistance of her estranged husband, the Court has refused to hand the child to extended family and is now being put up for adoption.

    The woman has a history of mental illness (bipolar) and apparently a history of not maintaining her medication. She apparently has other children who are in the care of her mother.

    However, in what I have gleaned from reports in England (it is due to be presented to Parliament shortly), I am horrified that the woman's rights have appeared to have been roundly abused. I am equally shocked that a foreign country has been able to successfully violate a citizen of another country. Her family have not been consulted, she was not informed of what was happening to her, she has not been given access to her child and has been forced to re-enter Britain to launch proceedings to get the child back.

    While orders to seize children are not new, I admit I am surprised that given the few facts that are emerging in this case how any further details in this woman's history would justify the treatment this woman has suffered under UK law.

    Meanwhile, two mothers who performed sex acts on their infants and procured their infants for sex acts to be performed on them by the lead singer of UK band LostProphets, still have access to their children. They are further protected by the same UK law in that their names are not allowed to be released meaning they do not have to face their crimes in a public arena.

    The world is a very strange place.
    Atrocious. I cannot fathom how this has been allowed. From what I have read and what you say here, the UK has no rights to this child? I mean, it was only born in the UK because they sedated and c sectioned the mother. While perhaps her mother is unstable, I still don't see why the child could not be placed with her father or another family member, and yes, when you compare it to the lost prophet case, it beggars belief. It really does.

  9. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caviar View Post
    Yes, this story is true. I remember something of it last year. The woman, an Italian citizen and resident, did endure a forced C-section under a Mental Health order and her baby was taken from her only to be put into foster care in the UK. All this was done and arranged by Essex County Council under the orders of social workers.

    Even with the assistance of her estranged husband, the Court has refused to hand the child to extended family and is now being put up for adoption.

    The woman has a history of mental illness (bipolar) and apparently a history of not maintaining her medication. She apparently has other children who are in the care of her mother.

    However, in what I have gleaned from reports in England (it is due to be presented to Parliament shortly), I am horrified that the woman's rights have appeared to have been roundly abused. I am equally shocked that a foreign country has been able to successfully violate a citizen of another country. Her family have not been consulted, she was not informed of what was happening to her, she has not been given access to her child and has been forced to re-enter Britain to launch proceedings to get the child back.

    While orders to seize children are not new, I admit I am surprised that given the few facts that are emerging in this case how any further details in this woman's history would justify the treatment this woman has suffered under UK law.

    Meanwhile, two mothers who performed sex acts on their infants and procured their infants for sex acts to be performed on them by the lead singer of UK band LostProphets, still have access to their children. They are further protected by the same UK law in that their names are not allowed to be released meaning they do not have to face their crimes in a public arena.

    The world is a very strange place.
    Wow, I can't believe this, I was so hoping it was joke that got out of hand (it has happened a few times, and this seems so unlikely).
    This is heinous, I don't know who in their right mind thought this was ok on any level. The family should have been contacted (if the mother was not able to communicate due to her condition or meds), the baby returned to their country, ideally given to the grandmother who has the other kids until the mum was treated. I just can't imagine the horror for that poor family

  10. #37
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    For those who say there must be more to the story - is this because you also find the act of a forced caesarean and removal of a child disturbing?

    Is there anyone that thinks these acts are justifiable? Under what conditions, would these be justifiable?

  11. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles10 View Post
    For those who say there must be more to the story - is this because you also find the act of a forced caesarean and removal of a child disturbing?

    Is there anyone that thinks these acts are justifiable? Under what conditions, would these be justifiable?
    65% because the story is way too brief/lacks detail and it is obvious to me that the journalist involved doesn't have a very 'good/informed/unbiased' source.

    35% because I find the whole idea disturbing and am thinking there would have to be a good reason before this drastic action is taken.

    I think there are some cases where a forces c-section would be justifiable.
    - if it was probable the bub would die via a natural birth and the mum wouldn't consent to a csec
    - if the mum was unconscious
    - if the mum was in such a psychosis that she may have well have been out of it.

  12. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles10 View Post
    For those who say there must be more to the story - is this because you also find the act of a forced caesarean and removal of a child disturbing?

    Is there anyone that thinks these acts are justifiable? Under what conditions, would these be justifiable?
    http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-25173794 further info

    I do find it extremely disturbing, yes. The only condition where this would make sense is if she was unable to consent (say comatose) and it was needed to save her life. I believe the next of kin should have to consent or not after being provided all the info about the risks to both mother and unborn child. A panic attack is not a valid reason IMO.

  13. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by CitrusRain View Post
    I have read and seen some truly disturbing things but this makes me physically sick, especially when I read that she is now 15 months old. What an incomprehensible abuse of power.
    I cannot even see how they had this power to begin with- the woman is an Italian national and this has allegedly been done to her by Essex county??


 

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