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  1. #441
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    I'm all for men having an opinion on abortion.


    ..and I bet $5 that if the male body could become pregnant - the laws surrounding abortion would look a hell of a lot different!

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  3. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    I agree, extreme blinkers are the worst. Which is why I would love it if you would do some reading on countries where abortion is illegal and see what the consequences have been. No one is asking you to support abortion, no one is saying you should have one. All anyone is saying is that we should all have the right to make choices for ourselves and not inflict our choices on to other people.
    I've done reading, and like you I know what the consequences are. I just come to a different conclusion than you: I think the death of an innocent healthy baby is the more horrific of the outcomes.

    I disagree that we should all make all our own choices all the time. Decisions are made for other people all the time based on what the 'majority' think is best. That's what laws do. As for abortion yeah I am against it for non medical reasons. If I was a member of parliament I probably wouldn't go to the trouble of introducing a law to further tighten legislation. If someone else introduced the law, would I vote for it? Possibly, depending on the exact law, the way it was phrased etc.

  4. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I've done reading, and like you I know what the consequences are. I just come to a different conclusion than you: I think the death of an innocent healthy baby is the more horrific of the outcomes.
    I think the trauma to a living breathing woman who has to live with the emotional fall out to be more horrific. But each to their own.

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  6. #444
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    Alrighty...I've been trying to avoid this thread or debates on bubhub in general that get me all riled up, especially this one as it's a highly emotive topic for me for a variety of reasons. But here I go!

    A VAST majority of abortions take place BEFORE the 12th week. Terminations happening later are actually very rare and are more often than not for medical reasons. If by chance, in the rare case a termination takes place later and for non-medical reasons it is most likely because the woman lived in an area where accessing an abortion at earlier gestation was made difficult for her (ie laws in place, living rurally, etc).

    My reasons for making the above points are this:

    1) you rarely know something is wrong with your baby until AFTER 12 weeks, often 20 weeks at the anatomy scan. So there is really no way of knowing, for many of those earlier gestation terminations whether the embryo was healthy or not, unless you'd like to advocate that these terminations must undergo an autopsy to determine if it was a healthy pregnancy or not and then criminalize it based on the results. So how can people keep stating that they only support an abortion for medical reasons?

    2). What is a medical reason? What you may consider a valid medical reason to terminate another may not, that is a very slippery slope.

    Nobody makes the decision to end a pregnancy lightly.
    Last edited by Kirst33; 29-11-2013 at 20:22.

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  8. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirst33 View Post
    Alrighty...I've been trying to avoid this thread or debates on bubhub in general that get me all riled up, especially this one as it's a highly emotive topic for me for a variety of reasons. But here I go!

    A VAST majority of abortions take place BEFORE the 12th week. Terminations happening later are actually very rare and are more often than not for medical reasons. If by chance, in the rare case a termination takes place later and for non-medical reasons it is most likely because the woman lived in an area where accessing an abortion at earlier gestation was made difficult for her (ie laws in place, living rurally, etc).

    My reasons for making the above points are this:

    1) you rarely know something is wrong with your baby until AFTER 12 weeks, often 20 weeks at the anatomy scan. So there is really no way of knowing, for many of those earlier gestation terminations whether the embryo was healthy or not, unless you'd like to advocate that these terminations must undergo an autopsy to determine if it was a healthy pregnancy or not and then criminalize it based on the results. So how can people keep stating that they only support an abortion for medical reasons?

    2). What is a medical reason? What you may consider a valid medical reason to terminate another may not, that is a very slippery slope.

    Nobody makes the decision to end a pregnancy lightly.

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    ETA to my post above:

    for medical reason point: somebody mentioned that they considered Trisomy 18 a reason to terminate whereas there are others that would continue their pregnancy. In fact, there was a recent US presidential candidate with a daughter with severe Trisomy 18 who was against abortion. So where does the line get drawn on what is a medical reason and what is not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirst33 View Post
    where does the line get drawn on what is a medical reason and what is not?
    I think each person will have their own line and rarely will people agree. That's why I am doubtful there will ever be a major change to abortion law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I disagree that we should all make all our own choices all the time. Decisions are made for other people all the time based on what the 'majority' think is best. That's what laws do.
    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I think each person will have their own line and rarely will people agree. That's why I am doubtful there will ever be a major change to abortion law.
    I am genuinely not nitpicking, but I am not sure how these two reconcile. Firstly you say "no, you don't always get to decide" and then you say "we all have our own line" so but I don't know how these 2 can co-exist. Abortion is a tough tough issue and I agree with everything that Delirium said earlier. I am not comfortable with a group of people getting to decide how much control I have over my own body and them drawing their line, and expecting me, and all women to toe said line.


 

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