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  1. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    So which is it- men are equals, or men are totally different?

    Fact is, men do not have the same investment in this issue as women do, because it is not their bodies on the line. It is not they who go through the surgery or medical induced abortion- it's women. They can have an opinion, sure, but it's not an equal one. So no, they should not be the ones legislating it- not without SIGNIFCANT consultation with women- because it is WOMEN affected primarily. I do not believe that a cabinet made up primarily of men will adequately interpret, understand or represent the interests of women without significant female input. And yes, the reverse is also true.
    So based on this argument only women who have had an abortion can really vote on the issue? That's absurd. Simply having a vagina doesn't make you any more or less qualified in judging right from wrong. I am anti abortion for non medical reasons because I find the thought of aborting a healthy baby distressing ... And that the innocent babies right to live should be paramount. I don't need a vagina to come to that conclusion.

  2. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Well it appears I am living on a planet where I have an opinion that is not 100% inline with the BH feminist majority ....and that's something some people seem to have a great deal of difficult in understanding (How dare a female have a point of view that isn't 100% supportive of women doing whatever they want with their bodies! Shock, horror!).

    I never said its not a woman's rights issue. I believe it's a baby issue too and that the right to life outweighs the woman's right to abort. I get this has implications on a 'woman's right' and it does not worry me simply because I do not think a woman should have the right to abort for non medically necessary reasons. That's how I feel, that's my opinion, I know it's different from most on BH and I am 100% ok with that.
    I think men have a right to an opinion on the value of a babies life. I think it is impracticable to say a man can not introduce legislation on something that involves a woman. And sometimes I agree with those penis wielding beings against the views of other women (again, shock! Horror!).

    I agree with the slants you put on the examples I mentioned. My point was simply that society has determined in many cases that someone can not do whatever they want whenever they want with their own body. 100% bodily autonomy does not exist, people are in denial if they expect it, and are distorting the truth if they are using it as an argument in advocating against Zoe's law.

    I am supportive of Zoe's law. I am not supportive of abortion for non medical reasons, although I am not necessarily advocating a ban.
    - if people disagree fair enough but that's my opinion so ....get over it already
    "oh look, someone doesn't agree with me! It's because I don't agree with the BH majority!" Getting super tired of that line.
    Banning abortion is yet another method used by the patriarchy to control women. This is fact. Not opinion. Do some reading into the history of the procedure and who is trying to or actually has brought about bans now.

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  4. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    "oh look, someone doesn't agree with me! It's because I don't agree with the BH majority!" Getting super tired of that line.
    Banning abortion is yet another method used by the patriarchy to control women. This is fact. Not opinion. Do some reading into the history of the procedure and who is trying to or actually has brought about bans now.
    Help I'm getting super tired of the feminist bub hub majority nit picking on people who dare to disagree. Just get over it and accept the different opinions already.

    And I totally think the line about abortion being used by the patriarchy to control women is hogwash. A conspiracy theory. It's about saving babies lives, nothing more nothing less. Sure, women may not have the ability to do whatever they want (abort for gender reasons) but I say hooray for that. Some control is a good thing. *most* of the time women have the ability to control their own destiny in relation to this issue.

  5. #434
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    You say "feminist" like it is a bad thing VP

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  7. #435
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    Just wanted to clarify I still think your a top bird Atropos, even though we have very different views in this one.

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    Atropos  (01-12-2013)

  9. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    You say "feminist" like it is a bad thing VP
    Not always ....As with anything I think if people are extreme and have blinkers on it can be a bad thing.

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    Vic - Believe it or not, we share very similar beliefs about abortion. Abortion except for medical reasons or in the case of rape upsets me. I wish women simply didn't abort except in the above cases, that they kept and loved the baby or adopted.

    But that's not reality. Contraception fails, women may not have the financial means. She simply may not want a baby. However it upsets me that a healthy baby is aborted bc it's unwanted, what is worse? for her to abort, or abuse, neglect or resent the child?

    I would never ever abort for non medical reasons (and I know you know I've had to do so for medical grounds and how much it killed me). But the only body I can control is my own.

    Maybe if we had better social supports for single mothers women wouldn't abort as much? maybe if DV dropped women would abort less bc they are no longer in a violent unhealthy relationship? I'm just pondering but instead of trying to ban abortion we need to address WHY women abort?

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  12. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Help I'm getting super tired of the feminist bub hub majority nit picking on people who dare to disagree. Just get over it and accept the different opinions already.

    And I totally think the line about abortion being used by the patriarchy to control women is hogwash. A conspiracy theory. It's about saving babies lives, nothing more nothing less. Sure, women may not have the ability to do whatever they want (abort for gender reasons) but I say hooray for that. Some control is a good thing. *most* of the time women have the ability to control their own destiny in relation to this issue.
    Yup, there's that line again. Someone questions you, it's nit picking. Someone disagrees with you (maybe 3 people in this thread? 4?) and it's the feminist majority at you again. Yet I'm the conspiracy theorist

    You think it's hogwash, I know it's fact. Do some research. Seriously. It's not news that in most of the world women do not have the same rights as men. This is just one facet of that. You can have whatever stance on abortion that you want for yourself. Have ten abortions, have none. Your body, your call. I think every woman should have that right.

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  14. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Just wanted to clarify I still think your a top bird Atropos, even though we have very different views in this one.
    Oh ditto I respect your opinions but I love a good debate

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  16. #440
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    I agree, extreme blinkers are the worst. Which is why I would love it if you would do some reading on countries where abortion is illegal and see what the consequences have been. No one is asking you to support abortion, no one is saying you should have one. All anyone is saying is that we should all have the right to make choices for ourselves and not inflict our choices on to other people.

    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Not always ....As with anything I think if people are extreme and have blinkers on it can be a bad thing.

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