There is sufficient precedence that says it is socially acceptable for people to make calls on the bodily autonomy of others based on their own social conscience. So a man (and a woman) are allowed to be distraught and frustrated at the thought of a healthy baby to another female being killed for non medical reasons. Just the same as many in society have spoken: euthanasia is not ok, either is suicide, jacking off in public or walking down the street with your boobs hanging out.
Having a penis doesn't mean you can't have an opinion on a healthy baby being killed.
Of course they can have an opinion VP. But I don't think they should be able to pass law about it, and I certainly don't think they should have been allowed to vote in the Irish Referendum I mentioned.
It's one thing to have an opinion based on your personal beliefs, but it is another story entirely when those opinions and beliefs are sneaking into politics, especially when those opinions and beliefs stem from religious morals and are impacting on the lives of women in our country.
Ultimately, there are ALWAYS going to be women who want to terminate their pregnancies for a variety of reasons. Criminalising abortion (which I might add it was still a criminal offence here in Tasmania until this very week. Tasmania's bill was based on the one they now want to remove from VIC), is dangerous territory.
Whilst criminalising abortion isn't the same as making it illegal, it still has pretty big ramifications. It makes it a lot harder for women to access safe abortion practices as well as reinstating and reinforcing the stigma around abortion, and when something is stigmatised, women who are wanting/needing an abortion, for their variety of reasons, are less likely to seek out the safe, medical procedure, and instead opt for more dangerous options.
Shouldn't we, as a society, accept (though not necessarily agree with) that abortion is something that happens, and therefore, make it safe, legal and non-criminal, so those women who DO seek it out, can be safe? Do we really want a society that shuns abortion so much that women feel forced into unsafe practices, putting themselves at great risk, and the unborn at even greater risk?
It all comes down to humanity. Is it more humane to provide a safe medical procedure for those who want/need it, and which has little risks of complications for the woman and the unborn. Or more humane to try and deny these safe practices and stigmatise them even further, and risk women opting for more dangerous scenarios with much, much greater risks to herself and the unborn?
Yep this, a million times.^^
In places where abortion is illegal - it still happens, it doesn't stop it, but it makes it unsafe. Backyard abortions and that used to happen right here in Oz.
In places like Ireland, women travel to the UK to have theirs done. It does not stop it, at all. It just makes it either extremely dangerous or very difficult - which is just wrong. Abortions aren't a walk in the park - they are hard, stressful, often times extremely sad. It makes no sense to try and punish women who for whatever reason don't want to continue on with a pregnancy.
You keep siting suicide as an example- I work in law enforcement and I can tell you, people that attempt suicide are not dealt with as criminals, they are dealt with under the mental health act.
I agree with euthanasia and want to see it legalized. The other two examples aren't comparable as nudity and masturbation ARE legal in your own home.
Thing is though beebs, I think 'some' people do want the see some form of "justice" ...to see women punished for 'killing a baby/child' .
There isn't much talk about education, prevention or alternatives from the pro life (anti abortion) side. It all seems to be about consequences.
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A- many abortions are performed because that foetus (yes, it's unborn, it's technically a foetus, though you may choose to think of it as a baby) is NOT healthy. I would guess this applies to many later term abortions (I point this out because many people are less comfortable with later term abortions) You have no way of knowing how many "healthy" foetuses are aborted vs unhealthy. It's just a classic example of prolife emotive language designed to guilt.
B- men can indeed have an opinion. But that's all it is. They do NOT have the right to legislate their opinions. These "opinions" are dangerous. If you don't believe me, google what happens to you if you suffer an ectopic pregnancy in El Salvador. No, I'll save you the trouble. You die. Because abortion is illegal there, no matter what. It doesn't matter that the pregnancy isn't viable. Because that foetus is granted personhood and a status above the pregnant woman.
Last edited by Atropos; 29-11-2013 at 09:17.
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