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  1. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louise41 View Post
    IMO person who kills an unborn child through a car accident etc should be charged BUT not the Pregnant mother unless she deliberately caused the death of her baby... Termination- if the pregnant mother decides to terminate, that is her business. Its her body and her choice. no one has the right to tell another person what to do with their body..
    Quote Originally Posted by Renesme View Post
    So you're saying that if the mother has a car accident that causes the foetus to die then that's okay as long as it was just an unintentional accident where they are at fault but if someone else has a car accident that causes her foetus to die they should be charged even if that too was an unintentional accident where they are at fault?
    i think Louise was trying to make a point regarding choice...

    But regarding the car accident scenario, it's too arbitrary and bizarre an example. A woman in a state of mind of intentionally wanting to fatally injure her unborn in a car accident would surely qualify for abortion (even in qld) on mental health grounds.

    The crux of the issue lies with choice, a woman's right to choice. There is choice on one hand, and crime on the other. A car accident in any situation is deemed either an accident or criminal negligence (drunk driver, speeding..) if its found to be criminal negligence by a third party and one of the victims is an unborn baby then this law would apply. I would assume this also would apply if the mother is the one who causes the accident criminally? Or is it only a thirds party law??

  2. #392
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    what I was trying to say was... Mum drinks /does drugs/wants to commit suicide ( fails but kills baby in process) should be charged as she willingly endangered her baby.. Mum has car accident ,not deliberate but a pure accident.. baby dies.. shouldn't be charged.... A person under the influence of drugs/ alcohol runs into/ over a preg lady kills baby.... should be charged... Just my opinion, and I know many wont agree..

  3. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleetwood View Post
    i think Louise was trying to make a point regarding choice...

    But regarding the car accident scenario, it's too arbitrary and bizarre an example. A woman in a state of mind of intentionally wanting to fatally injure her unborn in a car accident would surely qualify for abortion (even in qld) on mental health grounds.

    The crux of the issue lies with choice, a woman's right to choice. There is choice on one hand, and crime on the other. A car accident in any situation is deemed either an accident or criminal negligence (drunk driver, speeding..) if its found to be criminal negligence by a third party and one of the victims is an unborn baby then this law would apply. I would assume this also would apply if the mother is the one who causes the accident criminally? Or is it only a thirds party law??
    It only a third party law. Which to me is a double standard. Harm to the foetus a crime when the other driver is at fault but not when the fault lies with the pregnant woman herself. This is the issue I have with the law. If I can ask that question, others can too. And it's difficult to deny the logical inconsistencies with this.

  4. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louise41 View Post
    what I was trying to say was... Mum drinks /does drugs/wants to commit suicide ( fails but kills baby in process) should be charged as she willingly endangered her baby.. Mum has car accident ,not deliberate but a pure accident.. baby dies.. shouldn't be charged.... A person under the influence of drugs/ alcohol runs into/ over a preg lady kills baby.... should be charged... Just my opinion, and I know many wont agree..
    Define "pure accident"? Barring mechanical failure, surely someone is always at fault in an accident?

  5. #395
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    And why didn't they offer Management options to the patient? Because the laws regarding termination are so strict, that the doctors were too scared to do it, even though they knew it was the right way to proceed. So yeah - absolutely has everything to do with termination laws in Ireland.

    Quote Originally Posted by wannawannabe View Post
    To cut a long story short, her membranes ruptured at 17 weeks and she wasn't monitored closely enough for signs of infection, she developed sepsis and subsequently died.

    It wasn't really about termination laws, it was really about the crappy care given by the hospital that had absolutely nothing to do with whether or not termination was legal.

    The inquest report identified three key factors for her death
    1) inadequate assessment and monitoring
    2) failure to offer all management options to a patient (which is what the termination comes under)
    3) non adherence to clinical guidelines related to the prompt and effective management of sepsis.

  6. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Define "pure accident"? Barring mechanical failure, surely someone is always at fault in an accident?
    an accident that you didn't deliberately set out to cause you weren't impaired by drugs or alcohol... we live in rural area so get a lot of roos at dusk... if I have to avoid one and end up banging my car is that my fault? no but if I spend the day drinking and drugging and get behind the wheel and crash my car. of course its my fault as my driving is impaired..

  7. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louise41 View Post
    an accident that you didn't deliberately set out to cause you weren't impaired by drugs or alcohol... we live in rural area so get a lot of roos at dusk... if I have to avoid one and end up banging my car is that my fault? no but if I spend the day drinking and drugging and get behind the wheel and crash my car. of course its my fault as my driving is impaired..
    I believe the recommendation with animals is to brake but keep the car straight as you're better off hitting an animal than swerving off the rd- more likely to have a bigger/worse accident.
    Assuming I'm correct, does that put the mother at fault if she chooses to swerve?

    What about simple negligence though? Not checking a blindspot or something?

  8. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    I believe the recommendation with animals is to brake but keep the car straight as you're better off hitting an animal than swerving off the rd- more likely to have a bigger/worse accident.
    Assuming I'm correct, does that put the mother at fault if she chooses to swerve?

    What about simple negligence though? Not checking a blindspot or something?
    oh for gods sake I give up..no matter what I say you are going to say something else..... forget I have an opinion !

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  10. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louise41 View Post
    oh for gods sake I give up..no matter what I say you are going to say something else..... forget I have an opinion !
    lol! You gotta love the twists and turns that are made in threads like these!

  11. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesperatelySeekingSleep View Post
    lol! You gotta love the twists and turns that are made in threads like these!
    no you have to agree with many of the members otherwise your opinion doesn't matter

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    Rose&Aurelia&Hannah  (28-11-2013),SoThisIsLove  (28-11-2013)


 

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