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  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    I wasn't saying it was related to the bill. It was a thought I had about the potential places this law could head in future. Not saying that the bill in its current incarnation would do this.
    I know you keep saying termination is unrelated to this bill. I did not ever say this bill applied to termination. My concern has always been the potential future ramifications of introducing such a bill. The fact that the first incarnation of this bill was drafted and put forth against the wishes of Zoe's family shows how things can be twisted to suit an agenda.
    Yes Atropos I know what you're saying! I don't know why you have interpreted what I was saying that way. My point was I don't think it could head the way you think it could, I don't see how it ever could. That's all, am I allowed my opinion without constantly being called on it please?

    It's really annoying when threads like this get controlled by a few who have their opinions and constantly jump down the throats of anyone with an opposing view. It ends up being reminiscent of hysteria imo

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  3. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoThisIsLove View Post
    Could you be any more condescending? Ill bring whatever I want into the discussion thanks!!

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    I probably could if you continue to use your pick and choose version of religion to confuse a modern day, real life discussion.




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  4. #343
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    Im curious. I admit I dont have an great deal of understanding for the current laws surrounding this but this scenario to me would seem far more likely than a few posted here.

    Whst would be the case if a pregnant women beaten badly or got hit by a drink driver in a car accident had no other option other than to deliver at say 26 weeks due to her injuries and then say the baby survived 5 days outside the womb before passing away. In an otherwise heathly pregnancy she would have carried to term.

    Would it then be the baby died as a result of being prem or complications due to gestional age? Or would it be argued that the mother injured resulting in the prem birth was a crime therefore zoe law would apply or gbh?

    Im just asking as the zoe law is aimed at the fetus? If you agree that a fetus has not taken a breath of air before passing. The prem has breathed even assisted so its of personhood status?

    Just asking to get a handle on things. For my own understanding.

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  5. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveInTheBed View Post
    I probably could if you continue to use your pick and choose version of religion to confuse a modern day, real life discussion.




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    If u think thats what im doing, then go ahead.

    It only shows how you treat those with opposing beliefs and opinions to your own.


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  7. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleetwood View Post
    Yes Atropos I know what you're saying! I don't know why you have interpreted what I was saying that way. My point was I don't think it could head the way you think it could, I don't see how it ever could. That's all, am I allowed my opinion without constantly being called on it please?

    It's really annoying when threads like this get controlled by a few who have their opinions and constantly jump down the throats of anyone with an opposing view. It ends up being reminiscent of hysteria imo
    I didn't call you on anything. I just tried to clarify what I was saying as it seemed you thought I was saying something different to what I was. There's no need for eye rolling or accusations of hysteria and control. We're all adults right?

  8. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoThisIsLove View Post
    If u think thats what im doing, then go ahead.

    It only shows how you treat those with opposing beliefs and opinions to your own.


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    Shows how I treat them?

    I treat anyone as an equal in a debate...
    You want to argue your own point of view - awesome!
    When you grab for your version of your chosen religion as a 'back up' to your standpoint, I believe the holes in that argument should be pointed out.
    Like I said, it confuses the topic.

    Rape as a blessing in disguise. Yuck!
    It sounds like the lame lines used in America today by those opposing women's reproductive rights, some say a woman's body just simply wouldn't become pregnant during rape, if she didn't actually want/enjoy it.


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  9. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miados2007 View Post
    Im curious. I admit I dont have an great deal of understanding for the current laws surrounding this but this scenario to me would seem far more likely than a few posted here.

    Whst would be the case if a pregnant women beaten badly or got hit by a drink driver in a car accident had no other option other than to deliver at say 26 weeks due to her injuries and then say the baby survived 5 days outside the womb before passing away. In an otherwise heathly pregnancy she would have carried to term.

    Would it then be the baby died as a result of being prem or complications due to gestional age? Or would it be argued that the mother injured resulting in the prem birth was a crime therefore zoe law would apply or gbh?

    Im just asking as the zoe law is aimed at the fetus? If you agree that a fetus has not taken a breath of air before passing. The prem has breathed even assisted so its of personhood status?

    Just asking to get a handle on things. For my own understanding.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using The Bub Hub mobile app
    I think the charge would be GBH but then if the injuries killed an earth side baby- it's a tricky one- would it then be manslaughter? I really don't know- I'm not a lawyer.

  10. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    I think the charge would be GBH but then if the injuries killed an earth side baby- it's a tricky one- would it then be manslaughter? I really don't know- I'm not a lawyer.
    Im not a lawyer either. But the laws are already so complex aren't they. It could be argued so many ways.

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  12. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoThisIsLove View Post

    Srsly having some concern for the unborn child in this situation too is the most vile thing u have ever read on this forum? What a joke.

    Wow. I can think of many more vile things in this world.

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    So can I, like women being forced to carry a baby that is the product of rape, like they do in Catholic countries, because rape is seen as not so bad in the eyes of religion, certainly nowhere near as bad as terminating a pregnancy - that is a real problem right there. That means that said woman has NO chance of having a normal life. I am not talking about the women who want to continue with the pregnancy, I am talking about the women that are forced to when they don't want to.

    And we want to talk about equality and women? We should start right there.

    You mentioned before that I brought up the one worst case scenario. There are millions of these "worst case" scenarios around the world.

    Last year a young woman died in Ireland because even though she was miscarrying - and the baby was not viable, they refuse to abort the pregnancy because it is illegal, because it is a catholic country. She got an infection which turned to sepsis and she died an agonising and drawn out death, even though a simple D&C would have sorted it all out.

    There are so many more stories. I can link them if you like. I'm not trying to change your mind, but I do want you to see that it really isn't just as simple as Fetus comes first, always. It is never that simple.

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  14. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveInTheBed View Post
    Shows how I treat them?

    I treat anyone as an equal in a debate...
    You want to argue your own point of view - awesome!
    When you grab for your version of your chosen religion as a 'back up' to your standpoint, I believe the holes in that argument should be pointed out.
    Like I said, it confuses the topic.

    Rape as a blessing in disguise. Yuck!
    It sounds like the lame lines used in America today by those opposing women's reproductive rights, some say a woman's body just simply wouldn't become pregnant during rape, if she didn't actually want/enjoy it.


    Sent from my LT15i using The Bub Hub mobile app
    Excuse me? I never said "rape" was a blessing. Dont be ridiculous. I already explained this a few posts ago, that I said the child, could turn out to be a blessing. But that I respected its the womans choice. Is another viewpoint so hard to comprehend?

    You do not treat people as equal, esp it seems those with a belief in God or a religion they follow. Or in fact with any kind of opposing view.

    Holes in my argument ( or belief ) is your own opinion and unfortunately it seems you cant express said opinion without being extremely rude and arrogant towards those on the other side of the fence.

    How sad.


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    Last edited by SoThisIsLove; 27-11-2013 at 07:33.


 

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