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  1. #301
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    It must be a terrible burden carrying the child of a rape against your wishes.

    I get a bit uncomfortable with people defining what a baby is or when life starts. It's all subjective and there is no right or wrong answer. I know legally there are guidelines, but like everything in life not everyone's opinions fit into a neat little box that the govt dictates.

    Some believe it's a life from the moment the sperm hits the egg, some when the heart starts beating, some not until it's born.

    I think we need to be open to realising that the above is different for everyone. And that's my concern here. That people are being told in effect 'it's not a baby, it's cells'. To you it may not be, but to others it is.

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  3. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    So why does he take credit for the good things? Or why do people thank god when great things happen, but then say he's not responsible for bad things?

    Why do people pray for help if he's just going to let people suffer?
    Because hes not responsible for bad things, the devil is and/or bad people or bad choices. All the good in life and good things we see around us is from him ultimately, not that we cant take credit ourselves for good things we cause to happen and good deeds etc.

    People pray for help because he helps us endure or cope but doesnt take away the suffering of individuals. He will for the human race as a whole tho - death, suffering, pain - all gone. Any way I said if u wanted to discuss further pm me or start a thread. I dont want to derail this one as its going pretty off topic



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  4. #303
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    These topics of rights always makes me wonder where our responsibilities have gone (at school it was always a two sided list ).
    I'm beyond horrified at the woman who was hitting herself with a hammer, and the story of the surrogate who terminated for the baby bonus has just saddened me so much

    These arn't just cell clusters, we have a responsibility to make sure children are given the best start in life (that includes bodily harm, drugs/alcohol, and eating at least decently). Not because they are more important than a living persons right to bodily autonomy but because they will have to live with the consequences of the mothers actions for the rest of their lives.
    I remember seeing a show about fasd, one poor kid was asked what he'd like to be when he was older, he replied "normal", I find that heart breaking.

    I don't find it unreasonable to ask people to consider the type of life their children will get to lead. While saying all of the above I am pro choice, I very much believe though that if you decide to go forward with a pregnancy you should make sure you are giving the baby at least a fighting chance.

    Can I also add, and not to upset people either, that people have survived late term abortion (usually with cerebral palsy from the saline injection), seeing a documentary on that forever changed how I view non medical late term abortions (I'm still not judging those that get them, but that was very hard to sit through).

    Back to Zoe's law, this isn't about abortion (as it specifically states), which yes people should have safe access to. I agree with pp that the Gbh charges arn't a true representation of the crime, and the baby should be recognized as well. I should also say I'm at around the same gestation as Zoe's mum, my baby is also named, we have her room set up and ready. If something happened to me and my baby like that I would want proper justice and recognition of the life that's been lost.

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  6. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveInTheBed View Post
    According to the bible, a fetus is not a living person with a soul until after drawing its first breath.

    ..but, yeh - probably best not to get into that in this thread.
    According to the bible if someone is to cause the death of a foetus they are liable for murder.

    But yeah, ill leave it at that.

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    oh don't even getting me started on religion people don't do all the bad things to themselves. What about babies who die, miscarriage, adults that live a healthy,good life yet die of cancer? last I checked I did nothing to deserve losing 3 babies.

    Anyhoo, best leave it there before I get ranty and go off topic further lol

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  9. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialPatrolGroup View Post
    That is a hell of a gamble to take with a life. If a woman feels that she is further violated by carrying the child of her attacker, it is hard to imagine that she will consider the child a blessing once born. How unfair for a child to be born to someone who can't bond with him/her.
    But thats just one way of looking at it.

    The abortion could cause the mother further great mental, emotional and physical distress from having an abortion she may never wanted to have in the first place except for the fact she was raped.

    or How unfair for a childs life to be taken away because of its fathers actions.

    Its a complex situation I know but abortion isnt always just a quick fix.

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  10. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoThisIsLove View Post
    According to the bible if someone is to cause the death of a foetus they are liable for murder.

    But yeah, ill leave it at that.

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    Passage?


    because if it Exodus 21 22 - they are fined, not the same punishment for murder

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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    oh don't even getting me started on religion people don't do all the bad things to themselves. What about babies who die, miscarriage, adults that live a healthy,good life yet die of cancer? last I checked I did nothing to deserve losing 3 babies.

    Anyhoo, best leave it there before I get ranty and go off topic further lol
    I didnt say people do ALL bad things to themselves? In some cases yes, maybe not even intentionally but perhaps through poor choices, in other cases bad things just happen.

    I am in no way saying that terminal illness, miscarrige is an individuals fault at all. Most cases its in no way their fault

    All I was saying is God doesnt cause these things to happen either - sometimes they just happen but that he will remove all suffering.

    So sorry for your losses btw.

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    Last edited by SoThisIsLove; 26-11-2013 at 21:12.

  12. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoThisIsLove View Post
    I didnt say people do ALL bad things to themselves? In some cases yes, maybe not even intentionally but perhaps through poor choices, in other cases bad things just happen.

    I am in no way saying that terminal illness, miscarrige is an individuals fault at all. Most cases its in no way their fault

    All I was saying is God doesnt cause these things to happen either - sometimes they just happen but that he will remove all suffering.

    So sorry for your losses btw.

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    Nah it wasn't really a stab at you. Just the concept itself. I think it's a common christian belief that all the good things are god, all the bad things are man. Don't mean it as a criticism of your faith. Just the idea makes me twitchy and brings up the age old question why do bad things happen to good people?

    I'm ultra sensitive about it, that's my issue not yours.

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  14. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveInTheBed View Post
    Passage?


    because if it Exodus 21 22 - they are fined, not the same punishment for murder
    That verse says if there is no permanent injury to the child but causes it to be born prematurely then they were to be fined anyway.

    Read the next verse, verse 23. Says if they were serious injury then punishment was to match it and if it was to kill a child then its life for a life. So it was seen as murder.

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