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  1. #21
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    Maybe I'm interpreting it differently, but this is to cover pg women who lose babies over conscious acts like beating her until she loses the baby, or like in the example, a drunk driver.

    I don't read it as covering a woman that falls down the stairs and loses her baby. I agree, it would have to be very carefully worded with strict clauses. But again, I don't read this being about abortion.

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  3. #22
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    From memory, believe it or not, neither was the American one. It was pretty much like this one. It was just abused.
    Also the teenager who caused the death of her baby due to her drug taking during pregnancy.

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenMama View Post
    Absolutely. I guess this makes me uncomfortable because as we all know common sense seems to leave the building in some cases. I just think it has the potential to get very messy.
    It does and I see your point. I just can't help but feel for the poor people that lose their babies under such tragic circumstances knowing the offender doesn't have to accept responsibility or the consequences.

    all laws are abused in some way at some time, as long as the fine print is pretty clear as to what a person is and isn't liable for (and again common sense should be used) then I think it would be something worth introducing.

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Maybe I'm interpreting it differently, but this is to cover pg women who lose babies over conscious acts like beating her until she loses the baby, or like in the example, a drunk driver.

    I don't read it as covering a woman that falls down the stairs and loses her baby. I agree, it would have to be very carefully worded with strict clauses. But again, I don't read this being about abortion.
    That's how I read it as well but there are a lot of prosecuting lawyers here(meant in a nice way) that have found possible loop holes that I wouldn't have necessarily thought of.

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    They are. That's exactly what the law says. 20 weeks gestation or weight of 400g will be given the same rights as a living, independent person.
    They say at this stage that it won't affect abortion rights- but look at the precedent. Why is a 20 week fetus treated as a being independent from another if it is killed accidentally (say a car crash) but not when it is killed on purpose (late term abortion)? What's the difference?
    i think the difference (which underlies the bill) is that it is recognises the mother's right (to bodily autonomy) to make the choice, and recognises her lack of choice ie. baby is injured in an accident as a criminal act.

    I do agree with the sentiment of what's the difference with regards to the gestation, and I have my own opinions on that, but I think this bill recognises the mothers rights as much as the rights if th unborn child (or aims to).
    Last edited by Ellewood; 21-11-2013 at 15:55.

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  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennaisme View Post
    From memory, believe it or not, neither was the American one. It was pretty much like this one. It was just abused.
    Also the teenager who caused the death of her baby due to her drug taking during pregnancy.
    I think if you take illegal drugs during pregnancy and something happens to the fetus I think absolutely something should happen to the "mother".
    U are knowingly endangering the baby... Same as a drunk driver or drugged driver knows they are potentially harming others

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    Quote Originally Posted by grooviechic35 View Post
    I think if you take illegal drugs during pregnancy and something happens to the fetus I think absolutely something should happen to the "mother".
    U are knowingly endangering the baby... Same as a drunk driver or drugged driver knows they are potentially harming others
    And herein lies the problem.

    Illegal drugs, then legal ones that have POSSIBLE side effects, along with if you have a glass or two of wine (also a legal substance) and something has the potential to happen, smoking during pregnancy.

    Bodily autonomy or not, giving a fetus personhood will not end well for anyone.

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  11. #28
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    But there is a big difference between illegal and legal.

    Yes people still abuse legal forms such as alcohol and prescriptions.
    But if you are knowingly doing something illegal then I think it's different
    Not by much but still different

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    It's not different, I'm sorry to say. And will not be seen as different, given a foothold. Which is what this law is starting to do. It's a crack, and cracks get made bigger when people find loop holes.

    I would love it if we could have this law. I think Zoe's mother and father deserve closure, peace and for the person who is responsible for their little girls death to be made to pay for what they did. But it's not a socially responsible law and I believe laws like this need to be as socially responsible as possible to make them.

    It's not just people who want to take away womens rights to themselves that will find the loop holes, either, but (unfortunately) I know some very unsavory types who will also use this law to their advantage when they're UTD. It's not a safe law.

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  14. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillynix View Post
    I'm with you, I do not agree with "Zoe's Law". I fear for the potential repercussions. I do not, and never will, support 'personhood of the foetus' regardless of the 'guidelines' behind it.
    And that is absolutely fine.
    But what of mothers who do see their unborn foetus as a person in its own right?
    PI definitely thought of DS as a person in his own right at a certain point in my pregnancy (won't go into scientific details here).

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