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  1. #221
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    There should never be laws that exclusively prohibit a pregnant woman from doing anything. If she could legally do it when not pregnant she should legally be able to do it when pregnant as well. To give pregnant women restricted rights is to make them little more than incubators. I am unable to ever accept that as fair or reasonable.

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  3. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillynix View Post
    No, being pro-choice doesn't say that you agree with abortion, it says that you acknowledge the right for every woman to make their own choice on the matter. Whereas being pro-life gives the impression that you don't wish for women to have that right.

    You may think of it as semantics, however I think of it as a very important thing to distinguish.
    One could also play semantics and say a person who is against abortion in most cases is actually pro-baby. It's not about judging the woman, it's about protecting the baby.

    See. Semantics can be played on both sides. I think people on this thread need to calm down and accept the fact that women have different views on abortion/late term abortion. Being part of the group that yells loudest doesn't automatically you part of the group that is right.

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  5. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    One could also play semantics and say a person who is against abortion in most cases is actually pro-baby. It's not about judging the woman, it's about protecting the baby.

    See. Semantics can be played on both sides. I think people on this thread need to calm down and accept the fact that women have different views on abortion/late term abortion. Being part of the group that yells loudest doesn't automatically you part of the group that is right.
    Pro-baby or anti-woman...?

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  7. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by peanutmonkey View Post
    We're currently looking into DH having a vasectomy next year and our GP said he needs for both of us to come in for the referral so its clear its something we both agree on. I was gobsmacked.

    Sent from my GT-I9305T using The Bub Hub mobile app
    Us too. Dh is booked for feb next year and our dr asked to see both of us.

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  8. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie Pallie View Post
    I'm talking about the original topic which is about giving a voice to unborn babies who would be born healthy unless someone hadn't committed a criminal act against them, or if a mother whacked her unborn baby with a hammer. I'm not talking about abortion.

    But either way, I'm sick of the whole, but we have to be like men in EVERYTHING, where in some cases that is impossible. Men can't carry babies, women don't need prostate cancer drugs or protective cups and can't wear condoms, because there are some ways in which men an women are different and we need to accept that.

    And along those lines, if a man was severely beaten the person who committed that crime would be charged for harm to that man. If that man'a wife who is 28 weeks pregnant is severely between by someone and as was her stomach and that baby died, that person should be charged for harm to both that woman and the baby. And that is because she is the only one who can carry the baby, the man can't. So that Law can only possibly effect women by the very nature that, that is how the world works. We are in fact different from men in some ways, end of.
    I know what the original topic is- I posted it.
    1- you have no way of knowing if a baby would be born healthy or not but that is neither here nor there. Whether you are talking about Zoe's law, the hammer lady OR abortion, the core issue is a woman's right to control her own body and that the right of a foetus should not trump that of a pregnant woman- and in the case of Zoe's law, we are setting a precedent that could lead to exactly this, as similar laws elsewhere have done.
    2-No one has said we must be like men but I do think it's wrong that women can be subject to law that infringes their bodily autonomy and reproductive rights especially when no such laws apply to men- it's unequal and wrong.
    3- The point I made early on in this thread (and others did too) was that existing law already catered to such scenarios with GBH charges applied in such cases carrying a max sentence of 14 years- I believe this should have been increased to 25 (same as Zoe's law) and left at that.

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  10. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    It isn't trying to be like men, it is just about having the same basic rights over your own person as men, as anyone. A woman should not have less rights over her own body than anyone else, uterus or not.

    The thread is more - where could this law potentially go in the future. No one has said that a person who willing bashes a woman and causes her to lose a baby should not be punished, or that it is ok to cause the death of a baby in the belly, but their are just different opinions that perhaps these laws aren't the best way to punish said horrible people.
    Maybe you are right, I've always come from the fact there needs to be a way to charge someone who hurts a baby whether they are 20+ weeks in the womb or outside if the womb.

    If not this law, then what!? That is the true question here? How can we protect these children from criminal acts. I still think it's this law, but perhaps there is a better way, I'm not sure.

  11. #227
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    Bottom line is, having specific laws to protect a foetus, is wrong.

    Why are we not content with the GBH laws? Why does a foetus, a potential life, a potential baby, require its own laws, that can essentially remove the rights of a woman?

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  13. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillynix View Post
    Pro-baby or anti-woman...?
    Oh please! Being pro baby doesnt mean ur anti woman.

    Does pro woman mean u are anti baby then? Im sure you wouldnt like to be put in that category!

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  15. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillynix View Post
    Bottom line is, have specific laws to protect a foetus, is wrong.

    Why are we not content with the GBH laws? Why does a foetus, a potential life, a potential baby, require its own laws, that can essentially remove the rights of a woman?
    Its wrong, for yourself.

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  16. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoThisIsLove View Post
    Oh please! Being pro baby doesnt mean ur anti woman.

    Does pro woman mean u are anti baby then? Im sure you wouldnt like to be put in that category!

    Sent from my GT-I9305T using The Bub Hub mobile app
    But what is "pro-woman"? I am pro-choice, pro-equality, I am pro-living persons rights.

    How can you give rights to something not yet born at the expense of a woman already walking the earth? How does she not get a say over her own body? How can you justify that?

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