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  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie Pallie View Post
    The law isn't about child services or GPs or Midwives intervening if there is a medically proven risk that being born more than 10 days overdue can potentially be life threatening to the baby, it's not a criminal act.

    If legislation in writing says it is limited to 'criminal acts' and then criminal acts in their 'glossary' excludes all of the things you are all worried about they CAN NOT happen. Simple.

    I can see how people say that there can be roll on effects, but if the true purpose is for cases like Zoe's family, then everyone's other scenarios won't be legislated against.
    I hear what you are saying. Remove the criminal acts part for a second. This law gives a 20 week fetus personhood. Child Safety legislation does not apply to unborn babies as they currently have no personhood outside the Mother. This personhood could allow child protection authorities to get involved and use court orders for an unborn baby.

    I am not trying to get you to agree with me. It is just that I know how the child protection legislation currently works and I can see this legislation closing a `loop hole' (for want of a better word) in child protection legislation that currently excludes unborn babies.

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  3. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mokeybear View Post
    It's not ALL about us as woman and our 'threatened' rights, all.the.time.

    I am happy to share my rights with an unborn baby that has been criminally killed the way this law is intended.
    We already did share such rights with our unborn babies. Had your baby in utero been criminally killed or injured, the perpetrator would have been charged with reckless grievous bodily harm. In NSW that carries a max of 14 years in gaol. Thus far, judges have used this charge and it's sentence to encompass unborn babies who have been harmed or killed. That's what I don't understand- there already existed a way to charge and punish persons guilty of such crimes.

    While I can understand that the grieving parents may want to have a separate charge to encompass just the foetus, this effectively then recognises the foetus as a viable life in its own right. A baby born at 20 weeks has effectively a 0% survival rate- there is no way a 20 week foetus can be considered viable- so why choose 20 weeks?

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  5. #113
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    So... Who decides when this specific law will be applied?? I've read over the paragraph in regards to it, and all the links and can't for the life of me find who makes the decision on when it gets applied.

    Do Fathers get to charge someone with GBH against their unborn child, or is it only mothers who get to decide when they have personhood or not?
    If that's the case, who else gets to make this decision?

    If something were to happen to me that would be the result of negligence, but I can still see it was an accident, and I choose not to press charges, can someone else over-rule my choice on this matter because the fetus has now been given person-hood, therefor it would be able to be defended by persons outside of my body who take it upon themselves to decide on behalf of my unborn child that GBH was done and therefor needs to be punished, whether I agree or not? Won't I then have to go through court proceedings, discussions with police, etc etc?

    Or does a fetus just automatically attain this level of personhood when it hits 20 weeks gestation, or 400gs, so anything that happens to it after that (unless I consent to it), people can and will be bought up on charges for anything that harms it?

  6. #114
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    I'm not reading too much into the possibilities of this law being abused. I just see it as a positive for parents who have lost a much loved and wanted child because of violence or some other tragedy.

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  8. #115
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    I can't see it being up to the Mother, anymore than it is up to the victims's parents to decide whether a murder or manslaughter has been committed and charges pursued in the case of an adult.I would imagine police would investigate and if found to be a genuine accident charges would not be pursued?

  9. #116
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    That's very interesting. And still opens up a whole heap of issues and problems that I doubt many people have thought too much on.

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  11. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoteToSelf View Post
    I can't see it being up to the Mother, anymore than it is up to the victims's parents to decide whether a murder or manslaughter has been committed and charges pursued in the case of an adult.I would imagine police would investigate and if found to be a genuine accident charges would not be pursued?
    People get charged for genuine accidents all the time. Neg driving springs to mind. No one generally sets out to cause a car accident but people rush, don't check blind spots, take corners too fast, fail to indicate... They happen.
    I know with domestic violence situations police can act on behalf of victims (this came about due to the number of victims to scared to press charges or apply for protection orders) so I would assume this will be similar.

    I was involved in a minor accident when I was about 7.5 months with my last bub. I was fine, just a bit rattled. I don't think I'll ever forget the look on the poor girl's face (she was at fault) when I got out of the car and she saw my belly. I'm so very grateful all was well for me but if it wasn't, i do know that she'd have been prosecuted.

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  13. #118
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    I've swung between it is a "mental illness" and "they should've known better regarding drugs. I hate drugs, I hate drug use. But I now sit somewhere in the middle, I know people who started abusing drugs really young, say 11 or 12, because of horrible home lives, because they were kicked out on the street by their loser parents. I knew one lovely kid, such a sweet kid who was a friend of my brothers, his mother asked my mother to take him in because she just didn't want him anymore. He was 13, typical story, ended up working as an underage male prostitute on the street, started using to take away the pain of his life and committed suicide by 16. I'm sorry, but I don't think "he should've known better" applies to him. There are no hard an fast one size fits all when people talk about substance abuse and mental health issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by grooviechic35 View Post
    I think people hide behind "it's recognised as a disease"... When u start doing drugs u know they r addictive and illegal.... No one forces u to do it unless u r a child of a kidnapped child sex ring. Doubt a lot of women are apart of that. But they CHOOSE to do it. Regardless of consequence
    And women who slip on stairs is not the same thing. That is an accident...

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  15. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mokeybear View Post
    It's not ALL about us as woman and our 'threatened' rights, all.the.time.

    I am happy to share my rights with an unborn baby that has been criminally killed the way this law is intended.
    I'm not.

    My rights, as a living, breathing, member of society, I believe my rights trump the rights of a potential life. However, I understand that many disagree.

    Like Sassy said, in theory, this is a wonderful law, but it has the potential to be abused and twisted in a manner that turns against women. I can never support that.

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  17. #120
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    I'm so unbelievably torn on this issue. I can see both sides and I genuinely don't know where I sit.

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