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  1. #101
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    Without reading all the replies, I am not cool with it.

    While I understand there would be an awful lot of pain and heartache for the parents who have their unborn child killed due to the carelessness of others, I don't think a law like this will ever be positive for women on the whole... and honestly, because the law allows for people to twist it and bend it and use it as they see fit, I don't believe there is a way we can have a law like this while also protecting the rights of women to terminate an unwanted pregnancy.

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  3. #102
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    I am not particularly concerned about the law being made so ridiculous to charge a women for accidentally falling down the stairs, but this.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose&Aurelia View Post
    I am dismayed at this bill passing. All you need is a zealot as an AG to enforce this law more than its original intention.

    What bothers me is its implications towards birthing and labour. How many doctors are supportive of VBACS? Or of 41-42 week pregnancies? Can a woman be forced into a cs or induction because a doc believes its in the best interests of the child? Can a mother still refuse medical intervention? Can women still homebirth?

    As much as I'm a mother I'm also a woman and as such I matter too.

    Sent from my HTC One SV using The Bub Hub mobile app
    I can absolutely see this as an issue. At the moment women who choose to give birth in such a way that may endanger the baby is not a matter under the child protection system, if this law comes in, I can certainly see this changing.

    At term and refuse an induction? Child Safety comes knocking on your door. I do think that could be the reality of this law.

  4. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoteToSelf View Post
    I am not particularly concerned about the law being made so ridiculous to charge a women for accidentally falling down the stairs, but this.......



    I can absolutely see this as an issue. At the moment women who choose to give birth in such a way that may endanger the baby is not a matter under the child protection system, if this law comes in, I can certainly see this changing.

    At term and refuse an induction? Child Safety comes knocking on your door. I do think that could be the reality of this law.
    I didn't realise that home birth was a criminal act! This law is about 'criminal acts' that lead to the death of a child who is 20 weeks old + in utero.

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  6. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie Pallie View Post
    I didn't realise that home birth was a criminal act! This law is about 'criminal acts' that lead to the death of a child who is 20 weeks old + in utero.
    It is not a criminal act. But currently, if a woman chooses to give birth in a way that may potentially endanger the baby, nothing can be done.

    I do feel however, that this law may pave the way for child safety becoming involved during the pregnancy. As it stands now, (in QLD), you cannot be forced to work with Child Safety during pregnancy (it is voluntary) because the feotus is not considered a child independantly of the Mother. However, this law brings personhood to the foetus over 20 weeks.

    I can see e.g. a women being booked for an induction at 40+10, refuses saying she wants to wait, hospital reports her to child safety and they can get involved because the unborn baby is a person with their own rights.

    I may be drawing a long bow but that is where I can potentially seeing this law going.

  7. #105
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    It's not ALL about us as woman and our 'threatened' rights, all.the.time.

    I am happy to share my rights with an unborn baby that has been criminally killed the way this law is intended.

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  9. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mokeybear View Post
    I am happy to share my rights with an unborn baby that has been criminally killed the way this law is intended.
    I'm not.

    I'm okay with the law being used as intended, but I think it's naive to believe it will only ever be used in this way.

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  11. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyMummy View Post
    I'm not.

    I'm okay with the law being used as intended, but I think it's naive to believe it will only ever be used in this way.
    I guess we will all have to wait and see.

    But in the mean time if somebody deliberately stabs me in the guts when I'm carrying a viable baby, it's about time a murder charge can be given.

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  13. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoteToSelf View Post
    It is not a criminal act. But currently, if a woman chooses to give birth in a way that may potentially endanger the baby, nothing can be done.

    I do feel however, that this law may pave the way for child safety becoming involved during the pregnancy. As it stands now, (in QLD), you cannot be forced to work with Child Safety during pregnancy (it is voluntary) because the feotus is not considered a child independantly of the Mother. However, this law brings personhood to the foetus over 20 weeks.

    I can see e.g. a women being booked for an induction at 40+10, refuses saying she wants to wait, hospital reports her to child safety and they can get involved because the unborn baby is a person with their own rights.

    I may be drawing a long bow but that is where I can potentially seeing this law going.
    The law isn't about child services or GPs or Midwives intervening if there is a medically proven risk that being born more than 10 days overdue can potentially be life threatening to the baby, it's not a criminal act.

    If legislation in writing says it is limited to 'criminal acts' and then criminal acts in their 'glossary' excludes all of the things you are all worried about they CAN NOT happen. Simple.

    I can see how people say that there can be roll on effects, but if the true purpose is for cases like Zoe's family, then everyone's other scenarios won't be legislated against.

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  15. #109
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    Viable is relative, a 20 week old fetus is not viable without a uterus. I may not have an issue with this if they revised it to be later. I'm not sure, but the 20 week thing worries me.

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  17. #110
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    I am fairly certain there was a case in the US where a woman who refused induction was charged or at least reported. I don't have time to look for the article now, will do it later.


 

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