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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    The word bitter comes to mind. And I do think it was a stab (yet again) at SAHM's since she talks several times about unpaid labour of child raising and " It only encourages mothers to stay socially and financially hobbled". Clearly directed at those at home.

    The article doesn't surprise me in the least.
    I agree with this.

    Its ranty and negative.

    I agree being a mother is about your relationship with your kids (like how being a 'daughter' describes a relationship rather than your 'job), however, motherhood is also my 'job' at the moment. The work I do all day is directly related to my role as a 'mother', just as the work people in paid employment do all day is related to their role as a 'police officer', or a 'doctor'.

    I don't get paid for my work, as I am a SAHM, but its still my 'job' at the moment.

    I don't necessarily think its the 'most important job' or the 'hardest job', but it is often very hard because as mums, we receive no recognition, often little support, no financial reward, no holidays etc. And is emotionally taxing because it involves caring for, and making decisions about the poeple you love most in the whole world.We have a vested interest in the outcome of our labour. Its hard!

    As for importance- every job is important, they all contribute to society- the arts, people cleaning the eateries and supermarkets, people maintaining the roads, building our cars, running the country, teaching our children, saving lives. I don't think you can say which is most important, but raising children is defintely up there! And realistically, in most parts of the world, it is the mothers, much more than the fathers, who are the central figure doing this. This doesnt mean the fathers role is not important, but usually, on a global scale, it is the mother doing the bulk of the parenting.

    The bit bolded in the quote above clearly belittles SAHMs and is offensive.

    And the quote "
    And if being a mother is that important, why aren’t all the highly paid men with stellar careers not devoting their lives to raising children?". Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I would say its because its a tough job, and not recognised as important??

    She says she the slogan 'deifies' mothers, well I think her article completely belittles the huge amount of time and energy we mothers put into raising our kids.

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  3. #52
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    whoops sorry I kept losing posts then they all came up at once!

  4. #53
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    This article is a total crock. I don't necessarily agree with the usual "mothering is the hardest/most important job in the world" statements but it's certainly important and that's that.
    I'll be a mother until the day I die and we as mothers today are raising the future generation of surgeons, lawyers, judges and presidents.
    I'd say that is pretty bloody important.


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  5. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexim View Post
    I'll be a mother until the day I die and we as mothers today are raising the future generation of surgeons, lawyers, judges and presidents.
    I'd say that is pretty bloody important.

    I think that's part of her point though. I agree, we play a huge part in raising them - but surely if they become lawyers, doctors, etc their teachers, lecturers, fathers, friends, themselves have something to do with it.. I mean if DS is hugely successful surely I cannot take all of the credit iykwim.

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  7. #55
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    A little off topic, but I've been thinking about the working mum role model thing. I know it wasn't said as a put down to stay at home mums (like we are terrible role models or anything lol), but it did get me thinking about my mum and the modern ideal of the all mighty career.
    My mum worked all of my life, she had jobs before she went on to study and become a teacher (I'm so proud of her, she left school at 15 so going back was a huge deal). She always stressed how important it was to have a career (especially when her third marriage broke down and she needed both the money and the independence), so safe to say she was a great role model of work ethic and achieving anything no matter how disadvantaged you are.
    I'm a very different person, I try really hard but can't hold a job to save my life (social difficulties plus I'm very literal and I find it hard to take the initiative). I place family stability as the highest priority and I work at that very hard. My husband is also very family focused, we prefer to work less (and have less, we live in the country, have a very cheap house, we make our own bread, keep chickens etc. to help with the cost of living), to spend more time doing the things we really enjoy.
    This is what I mean when I say it's a highly personal thing, both life styles are valid, both are capable of raising great well adjusted kids (it's just a matter of what makes us as individuals happy and fulfilled).

    Returning to mum, she retired early due to some work related injuries (after years of wrangling with insurance agencies and doctors). After all that she has a small amount of super, and is now staying at home. It's hard on her to be dependent on someone else, so there are times a career can let you down too (sorry to end this post on a downer, just saying there are no guarantees).

  8. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    I think that's part of her point though. I agree, we play a huge part in raising them - but surely if they become lawyers, doctors, etc their teachers, lecturers, fathers, friends, themselves have something to do with it.. I mean if DS is hugely successful surely I cannot take all of the credit iykwim.
    I don't think its so much about taking the credit for their success, more that as mothers we have a huge influence (obviously not the ONLY influence, but a pretty major one) over the path they choose to take, not to mention all the logistics involved with raising and caring for a child, that often fall onto the mother.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Annabella View Post
    I don't think its so much about taking the credit for their success, more that as mothers we have a huge influence (obviously not the ONLY influence, but a pretty major one) over the path they choose to take, not to mention all the logistics involved with raising and caring for a child, that often fall onto the mother.
    I really don't understand what our path we choose has to do with our mothers. I sort of think when we keep espousing these sorts of dogmatic lines (I'm not talking you but in general) that it doesn't help our cause, it just re-inforces that child and house duties are "women's work".

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    I'll say this first: Catherine Deveny is all about saying things, bluntly, as she sees them (and often stirring the pot). I agree with many of the points she made, but all in all don't think there's anything all that interesting in the article. It can lead though - as it's doing here - to interesting discussion.

    The most interesting point to me is about whether or not being a parent is a job. I don't think it is, but I have certainly looked at it this way in the past.

    For some context, my daughter's 14 months old and I'm 24. I finished high school at 16, worked part time, went to uni, did casual work (relief teaching) for a couple of years then had a baby. I haven't done any paid work since she was born.

    When my daughter was first born, I DEFINITELY looked at parenting as a job. For me, I think this was because it's by far the hardest I've worked in my life. Like most Australians, certainly of my generation, I've never had any really significant responsibilities or obligations tied to a relationship. For many people, and many cultures, there's a social requirement to repay what others have done for you or to contribute significantly to your family. In these circumstances I imagine it'd feel quite normal to be spending most, if not all, of your time engaged in household/caring work that HAS to be done for someone else's sake. Since it didn't feel normal for me, it made more sense to classify it as a job. I've since changed my view significantly, but I do wonder whether others feel the same... that home life isn't/shouldn't be work and hence when it is, it's by default a job?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearlessLeader View Post
    I was thinking about this last night, and realized the reason the phrase 'motherhood isn't a vocation, it's a relationship' resonated so much.
    Now this is going to be an extremely unpopular view I'm sure but... I don't actually believe that parenting shapes people all that much (sorry Freud!), so I don't think it's even close to the most important job in the world. I think children are influenced by a whole range of things- personality, birth order, society and culture, their own health and abilities, what their wider family is like (so for eg whether their parents fight a lot) as WELL as how they are directly parented. So even if how they are raised is the number one most important influence on how they turn out (and I don't know if that's true), it's still not a huge piece of the puzzle.
    I actually agreed with you on your initial post on this article but this new conclusion of yours I strongly disagree with. As a person who grew up with an abusive parent it is very clear to me just how big the impact (or potential impact) parenting can directly have on a person. I would absolutely rate parenting as one of the biggest pieces of the puzzle that make up most of us.

    Sent from my GT-S5830 using The Bub Hub mobile app

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    I really don't understand what our path we choose has to do with our mothers. I sort of think when we keep espousing these sorts of dogmatic lines (I'm not talking you but in general) that it doesn't help our cause, it just re-inforces that child and house duties are "women's work".
    I believe our upbringing has a huge influence over our future. And our parents, particularly our mothers, and our relationship with our mother play a very major part in this.

    I honestly believe the way we are parented has a massive influence over who we become as adults, secure attachment with our mother is really important for a strong sense of self etc as we grow older.

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