+ Reply to Thread
Page 5 of 13 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 125
  1. #41
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,517
    Thanks
    432
    Thanked
    3,246
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 posts
    So just because I still don't entirely understand what exactly homeopathy is.. It's medicated water that has been diluted until the medication is basically just a "memory" for it? Or, treated water if they don't use medication exactly?

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    8,806
    Thanks
    7,267
    Thanked
    9,720
    Reviews
    5
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    The journal is peer reviewed. The study wouldn't be published in that journal if the methodology was flawed in the eyes of the independent scientific reviewers. So if the scientists who work in the field were happy with a sample size of 53, who are you to say that it is too small?
    This is more current than that one study- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20402610
    "CONCLUSIONS:
    The findings of currently available Cochrane reviews of studies of homeopathy do not show that homeopathic medicines have effects beyond placebo."

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Atropos For This Useful Post:

    beebs  (28-10-2013),risfaerie  (29-10-2013)

  4. #43
    Busy-Bee's Avatar
    Busy-Bee is offline Offending people since before Del :D
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    11,183
    Thanks
    3,664
    Thanked
    4,704
    Reviews
    2
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 postsEmerald Star - 10,000 posts
    Awards:
    Past Moderator - Thank you
    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    So is anyone going to address the paper that Benji linked to? It is a study in a peer reviewed journal showing a statistically significant impact of homeopathic treatment. Do we now believe that particular piece of science? It passes all the test; it's peer reviewed, has statistically significant results and of course, the authors of the paper know a lot more about the topic than most of us.
    I don't claim to be an expert in the processes of 'science' but my first question would be why haven't they been awarded the $1million being offered by James Randi? http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/...feb5video.html

    I do have a novice understanding of data collection and analysis and like PP's have said , 53 does not constitute a sufficient sample. It might be grounds to do further, more encompassing study but the results of a study of 53 subjects cannot be considered credible evidence, let alone proof. If I can go back to my research course at uni some 23 years ago (eeek!!!) I have a recollection that there are agreed standards on sample sizes in order of the outcome to be be credible.

    There is also a tolerance within statistical results. Admittedly I have not read the link but if the outcome of those who took the homeopathic solution were only marginally greater than the placebo then it would be considered to have fallen within this tolerance and again, not substantial enough to be considered credible evidence.

  5. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Busy-Bee For This Useful Post:

    Atropos  (28-10-2013),beebs  (28-10-2013),lambjam  (28-10-2013)

  6. #44
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    8,806
    Thanks
    7,267
    Thanked
    9,720
    Reviews
    5
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennaisme View Post
    So just because I still don't entirely understand what exactly homeopathy is.. It's medicated water that has been diluted until the medication is basically just a "memory" for it? Or, treated water if they don't use medication exactly?
    The idea is to treat like with like...sort of. So a fever would be treated with a fever causing substance which had been added to water. The dilution is about a drop in an ocean. So the active ingredient is so diluted it is no longer detectable. The water is then bottled at tapped in a certain way to somehow make the water molecules remember the dilute ingredient. Then it is administer to the patient.

  7. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    8,806
    Thanks
    7,267
    Thanked
    9,720
    Reviews
    5
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Busy-Bee View Post
    I don't claim to be an expert in the processes of 'science' but my first question would be why haven't they been awarded the $1million being offered by James Randi? http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/...feb5video.html

    I do have a novice understanding of data collection and analysis and like PP's have said , 53 does not constitute a sufficient sample. It might be grounds to do further, more encompassing study but the results of a study of 53 subjects cannot be considered credible evidence, let alone proof. If I can go back to my research course at uni some 23 years ago (eeek!!!) I have a recollection that there are agreed standards on sample sizes in order of the outcome to be be credible.

    There is also a tolerance within statistical results. Admittedly I have not read the link but if the outcome of those who took the homeopathic solution were only marginally greater than the placebo then it would be considered to have fallen within this tolerance and again, not substantial enough to be considered credible evidence.
    Exactly, surely a cool million plus the chance to prove to the world that homeopathy really works is what every struggling homeopath wants??

  8. #46
    Busy-Bee's Avatar
    Busy-Bee is offline Offending people since before Del :D
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    11,183
    Thanks
    3,664
    Thanked
    4,704
    Reviews
    2
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 postsEmerald Star - 10,000 posts
    Awards:
    Past Moderator - Thank you
    This video clip provides a good understanding of the sort of dilution homeopathic solutions offer.


    DF is a chemist so he spends his life making industrial lotions and potions. We have a running joke about putting a blood pressure monitor on him and start talking the 'virtues' of homeopathy.

  9. #47
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    273
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked
    204
    Reviews
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    So is anyone going to address the paper that Benji linked to? It is a study in a peer reviewed journal showing a statistically significant impact of homeopathic treatment. Do we now believe that particular piece of science? It passes all the test; it's peer reviewed, has statistically significant results and of course, the authors of the paper know a lot more about the topic than most of us.
    The sample size is small and study period short, limitations acknowledged by the authors. I wouldn't say these facts invalidate the findings but I would say further study is indicated (the findings are definitely interesting). Surprise, scientist says more money should be spent on research .

    Personally two studies of limited scope wouldn't have me spending my hard earned on a homeopathic remedy.

  10. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,517
    Thanks
    432
    Thanked
    3,246
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    The idea is to treat like with like...sort of. So a fever would be treated with a fever causing substance which had been added to water. The dilution is about a drop in an ocean. So the active ingredient is so diluted it is no longer detectable. The water is then bottled at tapped in a certain way to somehow make the water molecules remember the dilute ingredient. Then it is administer to the patient.
    So there'd be a lot of different kinds of taps to trigger different types of symptom inducing things in the water??

    Soley based on that I sure as buggery wouldn't want the damn thing. Someone does a little wrong tap and suddenly, rather than being given a cure for a cold I'm being given water that remembers it had HIV in it at some point and then BAM, I'm stuck with that, too? Realistically, that doesn't seem like a safe practice. (I'm working on the theory that homeopathy would be an effective method for treating people as more than purely a placebo. I'm not sure how it would though.)

  11. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    8,806
    Thanks
    7,267
    Thanked
    9,720
    Reviews
    5
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennaisme View Post
    So there'd be a lot of different kinds of taps to trigger different types of symptom inducing things in the water??

    Soley based on that I sure as buggery wouldn't want the damn thing. Someone does a little wrong tap and suddenly, rather than being given a cure for a cold I'm being given water that remembers it had HIV in it at some point and then BAM, I'm stuck with that, too? Realistically, that doesn't seem like a safe practice. (I'm working on the theory that homeopathy would be an effective method for treating people as more than purely a placebo. I'm not sure how it would though.)
    Of course. Like imagine a box of glass remedy bottles rattling around in a truck. Plenty of chance for extra tapping. What if it activated the water's memory of poop? Or vomit? No fan of homeopathy has yet been able to explain that to me. And I've asked a few!

  12. #50
    Busy-Bee's Avatar
    Busy-Bee is offline Offending people since before Del :D
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    11,183
    Thanks
    3,664
    Thanked
    4,704
    Reviews
    2
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 postsEmerald Star - 10,000 posts
    Awards:
    Past Moderator - Thank you
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennaisme View Post
    So there'd be a lot of different kinds of taps to trigger different types of symptom inducing things in the water??
    I think (and I will be the first to admit I could be wrong here) that the tapping has to be done in a particular way, something like 10 times on a leather strip so random taps and bumps don't 'work'.


 

Similar Threads

  1. No science minister for the first time since 1931
    By Atropos in forum General Election Discussion
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 17-09-2013, 13:54
  2. Is Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Anti-Science?
    By Maybelline in forum Immunisation & Vaccines
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-06-2013, 12:43
  3. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-12-2012, 17:09

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
free weekly newsletters | sign up now!
who are these people who write great posts? meet our hubbub authors!
Learn how you can contribute to the hubbub!

reviews
learn how you can become a reviewer!

competitions

forum - chatting now
christmas gift guidesee all Red Stocking
Babybee Prams
Save $50 in our pre-Christmas sale! All Comet's now only $500. Our bassinet & stroller set includes free shipping AUS wide, $75 free accessories, 18-months warranty & a 9 month free return policy. Check out our new designer range today!
sales & new stuffsee all
CarmelsBeautySecrets
Growing your own natural nails is easy. Years ago, I devised a simple and very effective technique which really helps boosts the nails' growth in as little as three days! And most importantly keeps them that way.
featured supporter
GymbaROO
GymbaROO offers activities for babies & toddlers in a fun learning centre, focussing on developmental education. Classes are available Australia-wide. Enrol today & help your child to reach their full potential. Visit the website to find out more.
gotcha
X

Pregnant for the first-time?

Not sure where to start? We can help!

Our Insider Programs for pregnancy first-timers will lead you step-by-step through the 14 Pregnancy Must Dos!