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  1. #911
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    Mod-pegasus is offline ADMINISTRATOR
    and all that the Lorax left here in this mess was a small pile of rocks with the one word...UNLESS
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    I'm also curious how the recent march in march protests were labeled as civilized purely because they didn't have any arrests or physical altercations. I've seen people label them as peaceful and applaud that they were good protests because they were "civilized". Yet they had Nazi insignia, they had defamatory comments, they had sexist comment, they had crude pictorials.There is much more, but the people against Abbott only had positive to remark about them.

    I certainly wouldn't depict the images that I saw as a civilized protest. (FTR I wouldn't portray the images I saw including the " ditch the witch" etc banners as civilized either).

    For me, this is akin to saying an abuser is not abusing as long as that person is not arrested or subject to physical abuse... Emotional abuse is ok?

    ETA: as a survivor of abuse myself, I really struggle how any derogatory signs, slogans, whatever are ever deemed ok. I seriously don't get why its ok to defame any person and particularly in such a public manner. But in this thread I only read how people were happy that people were able to voice their hate of the government.

    I can think of many ways to voice my dissatisfaction of the government and none of them are equivocal to what I saw.

    I've sat on this post watching for a couple of days to see responses, yet the way I've seen posters say it was civilized has made me think there are so many double standards.

    Does anyone else see the dichotomy?
    Last edited by Mod-pegasus; 27-03-2014 at 03:30.

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    Father  (27-03-2014)

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    There are 7 offensive signs. I don't agree with them. There obviously were not a huge amount of them since journalists had to tweet to ask people for more offensive signs they may have seen.

    ETA - if 100,000+ people marched against me, I'd be pretty miffed. And again, the proof is in the approval ratings.

    On the knight and dame rubbish...

    ImageUploadedByThe Bub Hub1395857611.148780.jpg
    Last edited by BigRedV; 27-03-2014 at 04:40.

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    Exclusive reporting from Fairfax says that Brandis was forced by Cabinet to "water down" his draft changes to the RDA and forced to release it as an exposure draft rather than introducing it as a Bill.

    Most of the sources quoted (who seem to be from the moderate Lib wing) believe there will be further changes after the consultation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    I'm curious then, Julia Gilliard didn't support gay marriage when she was pm, yet I never saw her labeled as a homophobe. How is it different for the present prime minister to share the same ideal, yet be labeled a homophobe?
    Because she is on their side of the political fence. Another great example of hypocrisy from members on this forum.

    I guess there are homosexuals that are homophobes according to Atropos' definition. They must find it hard to live with themselves

  7. #916
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    I'm also curious how the recent march in march protests were labeled as civilized purely because they didn't have any arrests or physical altercations. I've seen people label them as peaceful and applaud that they were good protests because they were "civilized". Yet they had Nazi insignia, they had defamatory comments, they had sexist comment, they had crude pictorials.There is much more, but the people against Abbott only had positive to remark about them.

    I certainly wouldn't depict the images that I saw as a civilized protest. (FTR I wouldn't portray the images I saw including the " ditch the witch" etc banners as civilized either).

    For me, this is akin to saying an abuser is not abusing as long as that person is not arrested or subject to physical abuse... Emotional abuse is ok?

    ETA: as a survivor of abuse myself, I really struggle how any derogatory signs, slogans, whatever are ever deemed ok. I seriously don't get why its ok to defame any person and particularly in such a public manner. But in this thread I only read how people were happy that people were able to voice their hate of the government.

    I can think of many ways to voice my dissatisfaction of the government and none of them are equivocal to what I saw.

    I've sat on this post watching for a couple of days to see responses, yet the way I've seen posters say it was civilized has made me think there are so many double standards.

    Does anyone else see the dichotomy?
    In any gathering of that number of people who have come together to engage in a protest against the government there is always going to be a fringe and/or extreme element. In this case, although the fringe element carried dubious signs that's as extreme as it got. From a statistical point of view these people represented less than 0.001%. I ask you, why the focus on the handful of vulgar/dubious/offensive signs? Why is there such focus on those 7 signs and not on the circa 999,993+ other protesters of which some carried signs? The overwhelming majority of the signs were perfectly acceptable (eg Abbott must go, Mr Abbott where is your heart, Save our ABC, Don't sell our Australia, climate change is real, not in my name, etc) and those people demonstrated peacefully (as did the people carrying the 7 signs also happened to demonstrate without incident).

    To the best of my knowledge, I don't think there has ever been such a turn out of protesters in Australia without incident. Even the suffragettes had numerous protesters arrested.

    For the record, I would distance myself from such signs as well - I think it discredits the message. There seems to be an expectation though that the thousands of people who came together to protest are going to be a homogenous group which is a unrealistic and plain wrong.

    ETA: Is the focus on the extreme signs because of the focus on the nasty signs that were aimed at Gillard when she was PM? If so there is a big difference - both in content and the fact that neither Shorten nor any other non-LNP political leader get up and make a public speech in front of them.
    Last edited by Busy-Bee; 27-03-2014 at 11:00.

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    Atropos  (27-03-2014)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    Because she is on their side of the political fence. Another great example of hypocrisy from members on this forum.

    I guess there are homosexuals that are homophobes according to Atropos' definition. They must find it hard to live with themselves
    While I'm flattered that you think it's my definition, I should point out (again) that the definition came from Merriam Webster's dictionary, which I had no part in writing

    I actually did find it homophobic of Gillard that she refused to endorse marriage equality. When I went to see her speak I was queued up to ask her about it in detail when a child beat me to it with a very simple question. I wasn't satisfied with her answer.

    Homosexuals who discriminate against or do not support equal rights for themselves are, I think, a sad by product of a hetero normative society. It's social conditioning.
    Last edited by Atropos; 27-03-2014 at 11:25.

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  11. #919
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post



    I'm just clinging onto the fact that he's just digging his hole deeper and deeper.

  12. #920
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    and all that the Lorax left here in this mess was a small pile of rocks with the one word...UNLESS
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    It was a lot more than 7 signs.

    No my focus was on how it was a called a civilised protest when I believe it was not. The signs were an example.

    I will leave it with a couple of quotes from this story.

    There were signs with Tony Abbott's head transposed on a penis, there was a sign calling him a ''f---wit'' and one of the speakers at the Sydney rally referred on stage to the ''shameful, racist, homophobic … f---ing a---hole that is Tony Abbott''. Even though they were offended by the comparison when I made it, many of the Twitter/internet critics complained that while the ''Convoy of No Confidence'' rallies got plenty of coverage in the traditional media, their left-wing protest didn't.

    These people overlooked a few key facts - those right-wing protests got largely negative coverage, and many of the participants complained of bias in that coverage. Also, those protests were of greater news value due to the attendance of Coalition MPs and senators, including the future Prime Minister, who famously stood next to a crude sign about Julia Gillard.

    Their presence lent legitimacy to a ragtag bunch of extremists, homophobes, nutters and anti-carbon tax protesters who should never have been given any. That became the story, particularly because the atmosphere of the last Parliament was so precarious and febrile.

    The comparisons are valid to a point. Both protest movements grew out of grass-roots campaigns, both reflected a vein of strong anger in the community and both included vitriolic elements which deflected from their message
    The lack of coverage of March in March probably had something to do with the fact that, like so much left-wing protest, it was unfocused. The speakers and protesters had a grab-bag of complaints, from asylum-seeker policy to gay marriage to fair trade. The only uniting theme was raw hatred of the Prime Minister, and the offensive signs/language about him were off-putting to a broader audience.

    And it's the last sentence here which is my real thoughts on the matter.


 

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