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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    So 'homophobe' needs to be redefined as as???:

    A person who believes that marriage is between a man and a woman.

    That is clearly not what the word means.
    The definition of homophobe, from Merriam Webster

    ho·mo·phobe noun \-ˌfōb\
    : a person who hates or is afraid of homosexuals or treats them badly

    I consider depriving someone of a basic human right based on sexual orientation to be "treating them badly", myself.

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    Perhaps the most appropriate term could be "heterosexist", which stands in the same relationship to "homophobe" as "sexist" does to the term "misogynist". The idea being that heterosexism and sexism mean privileging the rights of one group of people over another, without implying a fear/hatred of that group.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
    Perhaps the most appropriate term could be "heterosexist", which stands in the same relationship to "homophobe" as "sexist" does to the term "misogynist". The idea being that heterosexism and sexism mean privileging the rights of one group of people over another, without implying a fear/hatred of that group.
    I'd have to disagree with that. I do think denying a group a basic human right is an act of hatred- whether conscious or not. In the case of marriage equality, I do think that's an act of fear too.
    Homophobic people have a fear of allowing homosexual people an equal status in all things- if they are equal in all things then we must stop treating them as lesser, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    I'd have to disagree with that. I do think denying a group a basic human right is an act of hatred- whether conscious or not. In the case of marriage equality, I do think that's an act of fear too.
    Homophobic people have a fear of allowing homosexual people an equal status in all things- if they are equal in all things then we must stop treating them as lesser, right?
    Indeed. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

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  7. #905
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    MrsHoward is offline If all I have is you, then I have everything
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Considering he won't support her right to marry and openly says so, I don't think she does know.
    I have seen her interviewed about this and he is openly supportive of her relationship and her right to br gay but just because his sister is gay doesnt mean he can snap his fingers and declare it legal for gay people to get married. How biased would that be! (IMO)

    Sent from my GT-I9100T using The Bub Hub mobile app

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    I'd have to disagree with that. I do think denying a group a basic human right is an act of hatred- whether conscious or not. In the case of marriage equality, I do think that's an act of fear too.
    Homophobic people have a fear of allowing homosexual people an equal status in all things- if they are equal in all things then we must stop treating them as lesser, right?
    I hear you but I am reticent to deploy strong labels such as homophobe, racist and antisemite in debate because someone disagrees with my position on gay rights, or racial and religious questions. (By way of comparison, there are rabbis outrageously accusing Europeans of antisemitism equivalent to the Holocaust (!) because of disagreements over the regulation of circumcision.)

    Abbott's position on same-sex marriage is objectively anti-gay but is, I believe, sincerely motivated by his relgious convictions rather than an animus towards gay men and lesbians. I am happy to argue strongly against that position, but I will only use the term homophobe if I see objective evidence that he hates/fears gay people.

    There are plenty of real homophobes out there. Let's not cheapen the term.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsHoward View Post
    I have seen her interviewed about this and he is openly supportive of her relationship and her right to br gay but just because his sister is gay doesnt mean he can snap his fingers and declare it legal for gay people to get married. How biased would that be! (IMO)

    Sent from my GT-I9100T using The Bub Hub mobile app
    He supports her relationship, sure. He does not support her right to get married. He's open about this. I don't think I said anything about him just making it legal, it doesn't work that way
    I don't think it's biased to support a basic human right though, no
    Last edited by Atropos; 26-03-2014 at 21:48.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
    I hear you but I am reticent to deploy strong labels such as homophobe, racist and antisemite in debate because someone disagrees with my position on gay rights, or racial and religious questions. (By way of comparison, there are rabbis outrageously accusing Europeans of antisemitism equivalent to the Holocaust (!) because of disagreements over the regulation of circumcision.)

    Abbott's position on same-sex marriage is objectively anti-gay but is, I believe, sincerely motivated by his relgious convictions rather than an animus towards gay men and lesbians. I am happy to argue strongly against that position, but I will only use the term homophobe if I see objective evidence that he hates/fears gay people.

    There are plenty of real homophobes out there. Let's not cheapen the term.
    With respect John, did you read the definition of homophobe? It is not only indicative of hatred and fear but also poor treatment based on sexual orientation.
    I also don't buy Abbott's position as being one of religious conviction. If he wants to prevent people marrying based on religion, surely he'd be campaigning against civil marriages of all sorts?
    If it IS religiously motivated then it's still based on fear and intolerance and frankly, his religious convictions have no place in governing our secular country!

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    I am not going to go to the barricades about the use of a word. I was really just explaining my own thinking on the use of such terms in discussion. I did not call Gillard a homophobe when she repeatedly expressed her opposition to gay marriage. She was mistaken. I will not apply a different standard to Abbott just because he is on the other side of the political spectrum from me.

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    and all that the Lorax left here in this mess was a small pile of rocks with the one word...UNLESS
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    I'm curious then, Julia Gilliard didn't support gay marriage when she was pm, yet I never saw her labeled as a homophobe. How is it different for the present prime minister to share the same ideal, yet be labeled a homophobe?

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