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    I can see why people would feel like that, but that usually means said people haven't actually learnt anything about these peoples situations. Don't get me wrong. It would be lovely if people could go to a refugee camp and then get picked up by countries willing to help in a timely fashion - this however does not happen, and people know that often if you go to a camp, you will live your life and die there. There are people who have been in refugee camps 50 years plus who will most likely die there.

    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I think people feel uncomfortable that asylum seekers with $$ can get a fast tracked ticket to Australia whereas asylum seekers without $$ spend years languishing in hell holes know as refugee camps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    But what of those people we have sent back, what happens to them now? Do we even care?
    No genuine refugee is "sent back". The principle at stake here is non-refoulement, which is enshrined in the UN Convention. That does not mean, however, we are required to settle them in Australia.

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    I meant returned to Indonesia, where people have to wait for processing, for years and are barred from working, so many become homeless. Not that much better than here I suppose, but at least being poverty stricken here is better than Indonesia.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
    No genuine refugee is "sent back". The principle at stake here is non-refoulement, which is enshrined in the UN Convention. That does not mean, however, we are required to settle them in Australia.

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    I guess a good way to stop the boats, is if Indonesia became a signatory to the refugee convention and got about the business of resettling in a timely manner. But as if that is going to happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    I meant returned to Indonesia, where people have to wait for processing, for years and are barred from working, so many become homeless. Not that much better than here I suppose, but at least being poverty stricken here is better than Indonesia.
    Returning them to Indonesia does not violate non-refoulement (even the Indonesians don't dispute that). But let's not forget the reason these people went to Indonesia in the first place was to contract with criminals to smuggle them into Australia.

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    Here's a thought to throw around. Assuming that asylum seekers are from countries with:
    - woeful human rights records,
    - freely persecute large groups of people (eg women, homosexuals, ethnic minorities)
    - repress freedom of thought, expression and speech, etc

    There must be benefit in accepting asylum seekers, supporting them to become functioning and productive members of Australian society so they may in what ever means, demonstrate to their families and friends in their country of origin that western, liberal, secular democracies provide a much better life than oppressive, unstable, war-torn, (whatever) countries.

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    @Busy-Bee

    Agreed, but it often takes a while since many have internalised the social values that are the root cause of their own oppression.

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    That is a fair overgeneralisation don't you think? There are plenty of refugees living in Indonesia right now, not trying to get here. And their stories are heartbreak ing, maybe you should read up on it?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
    Returning them to Indonesia does not violate non-refoulement (even the Indonesians don't dispute that). But let's not forget the reason these people went to Indonesia in the first place was to contract with criminals to smuggle them into Australia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    That is a fair overgeneralisation don't you think? There are plenty of refugees living in Indonesia right now, not trying to get here. And their stories are heartbreak ing, maybe you should read up on it?
    Well, I thought I was fairly up to speed with situation in Indonesia, but I'm always open to new insights . Could you point me in the direction of where I could "read up" about asylum seekers who are travelling to Indonesia as their intended terminal destination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
    @Busy-Bee

    Agreed, but it often takes a while since many have internalised the social values that are the root cause of their own oppression.
    I agree with this. I think it's something worth considering though and used as an argument to be accepting of asylum seekers. The fact remains that it doesn't matter how brilliant the policies are, Australia is never going to be able to implement world peace/a new world order thus bringing the end to asylum seekers. What we can do is demonstrate the broad benefits of a liberal, secular democracy (as can other similarly governed countries) so that this may slowly influence others.

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