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  1. #201
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    Thanks for your rational input JohnC. It is appreciated.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    Why is it that no one on here can provide a number of acceptable refugees per year?
    Why are you getting bogged down in demanding people give you an exact figure rather than addressing the points people are making? How can we give an exact figure given we, and you, aren't privy to a whole range of facts and figures on the numbers we can handle? I don't work for the dept of immigration, nor am I Finance Minister. What is your figure? and can you back it up with concrete figures and facts why that exact number is right?

    Bottom line is, despite being on of the wealthiest nations on earth we are something like 50th in the world for how many refugees we take. We are hardly swamped. Until I'm made finance minister, I'm unsure of numbers, but I will say we can take more than we do.

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    Atropos  (16-02-2014),beebs  (16-02-2014),KaraB  (16-02-2014)

  4. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarvestMoon View Post
    Apparently a couple of people died in the jungle in Indonesia whilst trying to make it into town after being towed back.

    I'm sure the libs would do everything in their power to keep any deaths hush hush and out of the media anyway.


    Sent from my GT-I9505 using The Bub Hub mobile app
    In some ways I can see the operational benefit of the secrecy surrounding the policy. On the other hand it's dangerous... If the public don't feel like they have enough information to know whether there are negative effects then people's minds will wander and they will lose confidence in the Government.

    Bottom line I don't think people have died on the return sea voyage but who knows. I don't like the secrecy.

  5. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Why are you getting bogged down in demanding people give you an exact figure rather than addressing the points people are making? How can we give an exact figure given we, and you, aren't privy to a whole range of facts and figures on the numbers we can handle.
    I understand your point, but by that, I would assume that you agree that there has to be a cap? I am not so much interested in what the actual number is, but the recognition of the requirement for a cap.

  6. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    I understand your point, but by that, I would assume that you agree that there has to be a cap? I am not so much interested in what the actual number is, but the recognition of the requirement for a cap.
    I think it's dependent on a whole range of things. Unemployment rates, do we move them to urban or country? How are we fairing in any given financial year? What is our birth rate like? is there a particular skill subset we are really needing or not really needing at all?

    So my stance is that it may vary from year to year or decade to decade.

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  8. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Until I'm made finance minister, I'm unsure of numbers, but I will say we can take more than we do.
    In round figures the Abbott gov reduced the humanitarian program from 20,000 to 13,000, which is where it was before the Houston committee recommended the increase. I think the reduction was an unnecessary piece of populism.

    Net Oveseas Migration is currently running at about 250,000 persons a year, which is pretty high, even by Australian standards. Natural population increase is about 150,000 a year, and it would probably be better if the two figures were brought into alignment. But current high immigration numbers account for about a third of our GDP, which is why governments of both persuasions have supported the current levels.

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  10. #207
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    Well here's one. Abbott said he was going to scrap the carbon tax and promised families lower electricity prices.. it's been announced that the electricity prices are going up this year =\

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
    Though it pains me to say this, I agree with some aspects of Father's position on this. The problem with irregular migration flows to developed countries is that if measures are not taken to stem the tide then there will be a geometric increase in the number of such arrivals. This is simply unsustainable.

    I fully support a generous humanitarian program, which Australia has historically pursued. But this can only be undermined by increasing irregular arrivals, many of whom are in less need than the millions of displaced and suffering people languishing in refugee camps around the world.
    Look at the percentage of genuine refugees arriving by boats vs those coming by air- 90%+ vs less than half that by plane. So how can we know who is more in need? They are all in
    Need. There is no set criteria for how needy one is based in travel methods etc. that buys in to the queue myth.
    http://www.amnesty.org.au/refugees/comments/22616/

    Taking more boat arrivals is not solving the root cause but I believe we should be doing it while working with international aid groups to address the problems causing people to flee in the first place because until this happens- we will never, ever "Stop the Boats"

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  14. #209
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    @Atropos

    Neither category (air or boat) are representative of the people actually in need, who typically do not have the resources to travel half-way across the world and pay people smugglers.

    Irregular migration, whether to Europe or here, turns a difficult situation into an intractable one. Consider the large number of Iranian boat people. They are not refugees. But meanwhile there are 3 million Syrians in camps in Turkey and Lebanon. Our ability to help, limited as it is, is dependent on an orderly migration program with a generous humanitarian component. And this means taking rather harsh measures in the interim to stop irregular migration.

  15. #210
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    My understanding is that around 90% of all boat people upon investigation are genuine refugees. Obviously it might be the case that of that 10% there are nations that are worse than others i.e. your example of Iran.

    But that 10% shouldn't negate the 90% that are genuine. Having a small amount of money to get on the boat doesn't mean they aren't true refugees facing deplorable conditions. It just means sadly only the ones with some financial means can afford to get out.

    I agree with you. We need to look at humanitarian efforts. But sending back families that statistically are genuine to make an example of them just doesn't sit well with me. All I know, is if I lived in a country of civil war, murder and rape and I could scrape together enough to get on a boat vs waiting in a queue for 5 to 10 years with no guarantees at the end - I'd get my family on that boat.

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