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  1. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsBid View Post
    Oh right well that's that then

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    Ok, in more detail then...

    If you are earning under the repayment threshold your HECS/HELP debt wont impact on your ability to service a loan (as you aren't paying your debt). If you are earning over the threshold then it will and your education wont have been 'free'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    Really? That is your argument? Ok, I'll amend my statement - it is free in every practicable way if you don't earn over $50,000. Better?
    Nope. At the end of the day it's a loan. Loans are not free. You don't pay it back- you hang on to that debt til the day you die. You earn over $49, 095- you start paying it back. Either way it's not free.

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  4. #413
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    and all that the Lorax left here in this mess was a small pile of rocks with the one word...UNLESS
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    RIght wing conservatives are pet peeve of mine.

    As to the whole notion of taking pressure off the public system by sending your kids private. All I say to that is, if the government stopped funding private and religious schools at all, imagine how much more money they would have to put into public schools.
    I think she meant to quote me meg.

    Beebs, there have been many studies which show that if money was taken out of the private sector and put into the public sector (schools), many could not afford to pay and therefore there would be an influx of students onto the public system greater than the amount of funding. That argument is flawed, I checked it last week with the industrial action happening in WA schools.

    I work in both private and public health and have to say, much as free health for everyone sounds great, the reality for me is what type of service can be delivered to achieve that.

    The money has to come from somewhere.

    I really have to look further into Sweden, Finland etc as these countries have been held up time and again as utopian with their health, education, parental leave etc.

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    Rather off topic but Scandinavia and Finland are not utopia - look at their suicide rates. Most likely due to the weather!

    http://healthland.time.com/2011/04/25/why-the-happiest-states-have-the-highest-suicide-rates/

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    Ok, no need to be so patronising.
    You obviously aren't understanding what I am saying at all. It isn't about robbing universities (what a strange and may I say, emotionally charged way to describe it), it is about the payments coming from somewhere else, that would be the government via taxes. Interestingly- universities are doing it really tough in places like the US where it is pay as you go, and not so tough in places where they are fully government funded.

    I will never subscribe to the ideal that health and education are treated as commodity, I believe it should be a basic human right and as such - should be free. But of course, not really free - paid for out of taxes.

    You are only as strong as your weakest link, and that goes for Countries, America is a prime example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    OK, I'll spell it out.
    The government currently provides funds to universities.
    The university system also gets money from student fees.
    Therefore universities have more money than if they were only getting money from the government.
    Our current system only charges students fees when they can afford to pay them so as not to restrict people from studying based on ability to pay fees.
    There is no good reason to get rid of these fees.

    Universities at the moment are struggling as it is. They are under pressure to accept more full fee paying students just to make ends meet, thus limiting places for HECS subsidised students.

    Why would you want to rob them of an income that is socially equitable?

  9. #416
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    On a totally unrelated note - I can't wait for JG's memoir to come out!! Very glad she is writing it!!

    Sorry, but as the OP I give myself the right to go off topic

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  11. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    Ok, in more detail then...

    If you are earning under the repayment threshold your HECS/HELP debt wont impact on your ability to service a loan (as you aren't paying your debt). If you are earning over the threshold then it will and your education wont have been 'free'.
    I know how it works. And I know nothing about it is 'free' you may not be paying it back but it DOES affect other things sooner or later. Theres a reason why you always get asked if you have a hex debt when applying for anything

  12. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    OK, I'll spell it out.
    The government currently provides funds to universities.
    The university system also gets money from student fees.
    Therefore universities have more money than if they were only getting money from the government.
    Our current system only charges students fees when they can afford to pay them so as not to restrict people from studying based on ability to pay fees.
    There is no good reason to get rid of these fees.

    Universities at the moment are struggling as it is. They are under pressure to accept more full fee paying students just to make ends meet, thus limiting places for HECS subsidised students.

    Why would you want to rob them of an income that is socially equitable?
    Universities do not have more funding as under every Liberal goverment the funding has been cut. Jobs have been lost, research grants have been lost, a friend of mine works high up in a university in Brisbane, she said it is cut throat between departments to get funding.

    The area my DD wants to study is no longer funded. Not because it's not relevant, it's highly relevant, but because the funding went to other areas.

  13. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsBid View Post
    I know how it works. And I know nothing about it is 'free' you may not be paying it back but it DOES affect other things sooner or later. Theres a reason why you always get asked if you have a hex debt when applying for anything
    It does affect salary sacrifice/packaging, due to the fact SS effectively reduces taxable income, yet increases net income, and HELP/HECS being a government initiative means it is based on net income. Therefore, you should still be paying extra tax if you have a HELP/HECS debt if you sal sac because you will be hit with a hefty tax bill if you don't.

    Considering sal sac is very common these days, it dies effect how much HELP/HECS and FSS you repay. You should get financial advice re. Sal sac.

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  15. #420
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    From what you have stated as your philosophy I really can't understand why you have a problem with our system. The debt is treated exactly like a tax until it is paid off; the more you earn the more you pay (with low income earners not paying anything). Would you be more accepting of it if they called the fee a tax and then gave exemptions for people who didn't have a university education?

    Anyway, we're really just going around in circles so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

    ETA. My post was a reply to Beebs. i should have quoted, sorry.
    Last edited by Meg2; 25-09-2013 at 17:24.

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