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  1. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    The point is in my area I could choose public, Catholic, Christian, Steiner or Montessori. I have the choice, so I exercise my right to do that.

    I thought access was what we're discussing. In terms of opportunities, the public schools in our area. I do not believe my children will have a better chance of attending uni or a sports scholarship (for example) due to attending the school they are at, but I have made no secret of the fact that I am a Christian and that has played more a part in determining which school they attend.

    You should never assume you know why someone makes the choices they do. I stand by the fact that which school my children attend is irrelevant to this discussion. What is relevant is that we have choice where we live.

    Oh and by choosing to cut down on some things to pay fees for private schooling I am helping take some strain off the public system.

    Interestingly (or maybe not) if the choice in my area was public or private catholic, my children would be at the public school. Because that would align more with us
    Yes, we are discussing access. To say that everybody has the same opportunity is a little insular. You might be fortunate enough to be able to choose private schools, others don't have the choice.

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  3. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    Providing free university will have no impact on the price of text books.

    My answer to why not is because we have a really great system in place already that doesn't disadvantage the poor. University is free for anyone who can't afford it.
    I do believe what beebs means here is that there are hidden costs of uni that create a barrier for poor people.

    While we have HECS and FEE-HELP so that the cost of uni is deferred (not free as such), it is incredibly difficult to pass university without the right tools, such as very expensive text books.

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  5. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    Yes, we are discussing access. To say that everybody has the same opportunity is a little insular. You might be fortunate enough to be able to choose private schools, others don't have the choice.
    I agree with this.

    If it doesn't matter parents would not pay for their children to attend private school, nor would they bother with tutors or a whole heap of things we do as parents to enable our children to be healthy happy and successful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ana Gram View Post
    I do believe what beebs means here is that there are hidden costs of uni that create a barrier for poor people.

    While we have HECS and FEE-HELP so that the cost of uni is deferred (not free as such), it is incredibly difficult to pass university without the right tools, such as very expensive text books.
    I was saying that it is free if you never earn over the repayment threshold (over $50,000), not that it is free for everyone.

    And I have to disagree that uni is incredibly difficult to pass without buying all the text books. I've done two undergraduate degrees, both times supporting myself. I often used the library text books instead of buying my own - or bought second hand, there is generally little difference between different editions of text books. It wasn't very difficult at all.

    Anyway, I wasn't arguing about the cost of uni, I was disagreeing with the notion that we should introduce absolutely free university education. Our system is extremely generous and it is a pet peeve of mine when people complain about it.

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  9. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    Yes, we are discussing access. To say that everybody has the same opportunity is a little insular. You might be fortunate enough to be able to choose private schools, others don't have the choice.
    I thought I'd stated quite clearly, I'm lucky I live in an area of choice. I also think assumption regarding income (there would be an assumption I'm on a high income bracket due to choosing to send my children to a private school when in fact we are currently a low income family).

    My point is that I fully recognize in a lot of other places such choice doesn't exist (eg country areas), I never said all people have the same choice, I have not lead an insular life at all, I've lived at all vertices of the spectrum

  10. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by sockstealingpoltergeist View Post
    I agree with this.

    If it doesn't matter parents would not pay for their children to attend private school, nor would they bother with tutors or a whole heap of things we do as parents to enable our children to be healthy happy and successful.
    And my point again is that the parents are choosing to do this not necessarily because they have money but because they are choosing to invest in their children.

    If I needed a tutor for my children I'd work out somewhere to cut my budget or pick up an extra days work or something.

  11. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    And I have to disagree that uni is incredibly difficult to pass without buying all the text books. I've done two undergraduate degrees, both times supporting myself. I often used the library text books instead of buying my own - or bought second hand, there is generally little difference between different editions of text books. It wasn't very difficult at all.
    I'm afraid we are going to disagree with each other here as we have clearly had very different experiences at uni. I've just completed my degree as a single parent, doing the work completely online with no access to uni library text books. I could not have passed my degree without the specific text books which were very expensive whilst on welfare payments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ana Gram View Post
    I do believe what beebs means here is that there are hidden costs of uni that create a barrier for poor people.

    While we have HECS and FEE-HELP so that the cost of uni is deferred (not free as such), it is incredibly difficult to pass university without the right tools, such as very expensive text books.
    ....and support, a decent and affirdable place to live (including safe transport to and from Uni, esp at night if working AND studying), minimal other life/family stressors etc.

    When I went back to do my degree as a nature aged student, most if the kids in my classes still lived at home, had dinner cooked for them every night, lived in good areas and had safe transport options getting home in the dark, parents who basically provided an ideal environment for them to have no major worries or stressors thus focus on their study. I dare say they would not have coped as well if they didn't have that support, worked long hours, lived in a dodgy area and relied on public transport at night etc. i supported myself through Uni but when I met my ex he supported me greatly in 3'rd year and I did SO well that year, getting distinctions and credits - I had no worries, it made a big difference

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ana Gram View Post
    I'm afraid we are going to disagree with each other here as we have clearly had very different experiences at uni. I've just completed my degree as a single parent, doing the work completely online with no access to uni library text books. I could not have passed my degree without the specific text books which were very expensive whilst on welfare payments.
    Yes, it sounds like our experiences were very different. I think as a single parent a lot of things will be more difficult for you to juggle than someone without kids (which was my situation). That doesn't mean that our education system should be changed, it just means that perhaps payments to single parents should be reassessed.

    ETA. And just to go back to a point that was being discussed on this thread earlier, I think child care should be government funded so that it is either free or very inexpensive. In part I believe that could have evened up our experiences at uni. If you were able to spend more time on campus and in the campus library that would have made uni much easier.
    Last edited by Meg2; 25-09-2013 at 16:05.

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    Free means not having to pay it back.

    They were two different answers, one) text books aren't cheap - they are actually pretty expensive, so yes, if you are poor, then you are disadvantaged in that respects.

    two) The question was, if the system works so well overseas, why wouldn't we do it? If it has been proven to work, and proven that governments get their money back in other ways. Then why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    Providing free university will have no impact on the price of text books.

    My answer to why not is because we have a really great system in place already that doesn't disadvantage the poor. University is free for anyone who can't afford it.


 

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