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  1. #371
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    No not everyone will go to university, nor do they want to and that's fine, but they should at least be given a chance at doing whatever they want in life.

    It's easy to say, once you become an adult you can become whatever you want, however if the system has failed all the way up to that point, the stats show that very few people are able to make up that ground later in life. However if the system in place helps catch most of those that would fall through the (giant) cracks, then many more children and young adults would get a better start at life.

    Even those from wealthier families benefit if there is a great health system, better social supports for mums and dads, great maternity leave, good free child care, a good mental health system, a lot of social aid in the way of support for domestic violence and alcoholism. Also more money put into education, so that every child no matter the school got good assistance and lots of help when they started to fall behind. All families would benefit from that.

    I know just looking at my daughter and her friends from high school, a few of them sadly have not much chance at getting ahead. I know my daughter had a great head start, because I cared about her, I provided her everything she needed, I wanted her to get educated, I fed her good food, I clothed her, I taught her how to conduct herself in the workplace and so on. She's one of the lucky ones.

    My son is struggling with English, and I work with him every day for about 45 - and hour, reading and doing English homework. He's also in an assisted reading program and has come ahead a long way this year, because of all of the efforts of myself and his teachers. He will be OK, however Many kids don't get that.
    Last edited by sockstealingpoltergeist; 25-09-2013 at 09:40.

  2. #372
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    He will succeed Sock bc you are supportive of him and are putting the time in. It doesn't matter how brilliant the teachers or the Reading Recovery program is, without the support of parents in the home, their chances of falling more behind are high.

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  4. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    He will succeed Sock bc you are supportive of him and are putting the time in. It doesn't matter how brilliant the teachers or the Reading Recovery program is, without the support of parents in the home, their chances of falling more behind are high.
    Yes he will be, he's very smart mathematically, however that doesn't help if you can't read the maths problem.
    But you are 100% correct, if I wasn't putting in the time, he would not have improved the way he has. His teacher told me in our parent teacher interview that he's come such a long way because of the work I do with him.

    I can understand why many parents can't do it, because they are stretched thin, I'm on my own at the moment, working studying parenting, and fitting it in is hard. It's also hard when your child doesn't want to do it, because they find it difficult, however making it fun and having a lot of patience has helped. I can see so many reasons why many parents who are well meaning and love their children still have children who get behind.

  5. #374
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    and all that the Lorax left here in this mess was a small pile of rocks with the one word...UNLESS
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    I would hazard a guess and say vast majority would be from low socio-economic areas. To deny that is ignorant. To try and say that wealthy children have it just as bad is insulting IMO to children from very disadvantaged areas.
    I have not denied that children from low socio-economic areas are at more risk. The stats are in. I have not said wealthy children have it just as bad.

    My point was how people are defining the disadvantage. No breakfast etc.

    A lot of this is chicken and egg stuff. (eg. Did you do well because of your education?) My belief is I did well moreso because of my parents than the schooling I received.

    Honestly, when I was a child it always seems as though we were on povertys doorstep although I realize this wasn't necessarily the case, my parents were just really good at saying no

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    I think our deferred payment option for HECS is a great compromise between full fee and free university. It's basically free when you attend, and then only pay it back incrementally once your income reaches a certain threshold. If you never earn a decent wage then you never have to pay back your HECS fees. I don't see how this system disadvantages the poor.

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  9. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    I have not denied that children from low socio-economic areas are at more risk. The stats are in. I have not said wealthy children have it just as bad.

    My point was how people are defining the disadvantage. No breakfast etc.

    A lot of this is chicken and egg stuff. (eg. Did you do well because of your education?) My belief is I did well moreso because of my parents than the schooling I received.

    Honestly, when I was a child it always seems as though we were on povertys doorstep although I realize this wasn't necessarily the case, my parents were just really good at saying no
    Other societies show us that when parents are supported, don't live in terrible poverty, are able to participate in society, have options, health care and education available, in short lots of social supports, that they do better. Then their children do better.

    Parents who are worried their electrics are going to be cut off, and feel like they are always going backwards in terms of financials, who are maybe on the hospital waiting list for 6 years for "elective" surgery etc, may not have the best emotional or even physical resources to to be able to do the more for their kids. They may be doing their best. However if they were supported more, the follow on effects would ensure that the children have greater life chances.

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  11. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    I think our deferred payment option for HECS is a great compromise between full fee and free university. It's basically free when you attend, and then only pay it back incrementally once your income reaches a certain threshold. If you never earn a decent wage then you never have to pay back your HECS fees. I don't see how this system disadvantages the poor.
    Well it does when a degree can cost you 100,000. Moreover it does discourage some from studying. It is a benefit to our country and economy, to have more educated individuals.

    Pits not just that though, the income support for people studying has heatedly risen in the last decade. Students are doing it tough, with many having to work full time and study.

    I myself work part time, study full time and am a single parent. (Although engaged). I get a pensioner education supplement that has only increased by $6 in 15 years. I cannot afford not to work. The juggling is stressful and difficult.

    The only way my DD can afford to go, is because she lives at home with me. Many children/ young adults don't have that luxury.

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    I am not sure why free university is even looked down on when it is proven to work overseas and when said citizens of said countries do better and contribute more in the long term.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sockstealingpoltergeist View Post
    Well it does when a degree can cost you 100,000. Moreover it does discourage some from studying. It is a benefit to our country and economy, to have more educated individuals.
    But you don't have to pay that $100,000 until you have left uni and are earning a decent wage, so there is no reason why it should discourage people from studying. If you don't ever find a job with a reasonable salary, then it is free.

    If your education leads you to earning a higher wage than can be achieved without a university education, why shouldn't you pay for it if you are able to? I don't see a problem with expecting high earning professionals to pay something back into the education system that allowed them to get where they are.
    Last edited by Meg2; 25-09-2013 at 11:36.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    I have not denied that children from low socio-economic areas are at more risk. The stats are in. I have not said wealthy children have it just as bad.

    My point was how people are defining the disadvantage. No breakfast etc.

    A lot of this is chicken and egg stuff. (eg. Did you do well because of your education?) My belief is I did well moreso because of my parents than the schooling I received.

    Honestly, when I was a child it always seems as though we were on povertys doorstep although I realize this wasn't necessarily the case, my parents were just really good at saying no
    Do your kids go to private school? Did you?
    Last edited by BigRedV; 25-09-2013 at 12:25.


 

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