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  1. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose&Aurelia View Post
    No. Ive never said the govt should fund SAHP. Just that they are not worthless. I certainly don't expect to be funded when I take 1-3 yrs off after the next bub. That is a lifestyle decision for my family and kids.


    Sent from my HTC One SV using The Bub Hub mobile app
    In that case I apologise @Rose&Aurelia

    And I don't think anyone on here thinks they are worthless.

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    VicPark  (24-09-2013)

  3. #312
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    So do I, I wouldn't call myself either a communist nor socialist. Definitely not a capitalist.

    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Communism/socialism v capitalism... An interesting debate each with its own merits. I think the answer is somewhere in between.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I agree with some level of social support but free this and free that.. I think we will see an amazing difference in how far forward our country will go when people start taking responsibility for their own life and stop expecting a handout at every turn..
    It's not about "free handouts" it's about equity and access.

    Why should one child's life chances be so much lower then another's, due to the socioeconomic background of their parents, the colour of their skin, their geographic location, access to health facilities or their gender etc?

    Its about ensuring fairness and recognising when equity is ensured and children are able to access the same as their peers they all do better and the country prospers.

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    beebs  (24-09-2013),Staaz  (24-09-2013)

  7. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by sockstealingpoltergeist View Post
    It's not about "free handouts" it's about equity and access.

    Why should one child's life chances be so much lower then another's, due to the socioeconomic background of their parents, the colour of their skin, their geographic location, access to health facilities or their gender etc?

    Its about ensuring fairness and recognising when equity is ensured and children are able to access the same as their peers they all do better and the country prospers.
    And it's not just about equity and fairness. When everyone gets equal opportunities it means we have a higher skilled, happier workforce who make more money, pay more tax. Are on welfare less.

    So from a capitalist POV, there are benefits from socialism in a financial sense as well as non tangible benefits.

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    beebs  (24-09-2013)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sockstealingpoltergeist View Post
    It's not about "free handouts" it's about equity and access.

    Why should one child's life chances be so much lower then another's, due to the socioeconomic background of their parents, the colour of their skin, their geographic location, access to health facilities or their gender etc?

    Its about ensuring fairness and recognising when equity is ensured and children are able to access the same as their peers they all do better and the country prospers.
    I believe the current support mechanisms (hecs, subsidises childcare) allow for equal opportunity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I believe the current support mechanisms (hecs, subsidises childcare) allow for equal opportunity.
    Do you really think all children in this country are born equal? And that they have equal opportunity in regards to education?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    Do you really think all children in this country are born equal? And that they have equal opportunity in regards to education?
    Born equal: no.
    Equal opportunity: for the most part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Born equal: no.
    Equal opportunity: for the most part.
    I would strongly disagree with that. If you look at two public schools, one in an affluent highly educated area and one in a low socio-economic area where parents may not value learning, where some kids don't have breakfast before they arrive, some have undiagnosed learning difficulties, some have English as a second language and may not have much English at all.
    You seriously believe that if I put my kid in either of those schools that they would receive comparable attention and gain the same level of education? Not to mention the huge difference in parent's involvement, as volunteer readers, on the parent's committee, in fundraising efforts. Oh and lets not forget their ability to pay voluntary fees and donate extra money to the school through fetes, raffles, mothers day stalls and all the other ways more affluent schools are able to raise funds. The school near me has a Stephanie Alexander kitchen garden. They pay for this by having a farmer's market at the school once a month. They are able to do this because it's a rich suburb full of people who can afford to shop at farmers markets. The challenges that teachers face in a poorer school aren't even comparable to an affluent school. There is no chance that all children get equal opportunities at school.

    Seriously VP I think you are often willfully ignorant of these things.

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    Willfully ignorant? Nice one. Perhaps I'm just coming at the topic from a different angle?. I'm not going to call you ignorant or naive for not seeing things from my angle...

    I'm not saying everyone has the ability to get to the same place with the same level of ease.

    All I'm saying is that if people really want to do certain things (study, get a better career etc) then they can. The social support is there. I dont think an all frills school makes or breaks someones prospects for higher success. People just have to make smart choices and take advantage of the support that is available.

    Does this mean everyone can or will get a higher education? No. Some aren't cut out for study. Does this mean everyone can and will have the opportunity for the same level of income? No. That's unrealistic and IMO not a good idea for a whole heap of reasons.

    My parents weren't rich and I went to a povvo public school and it was tough but making certain choices and taking advantage of the good (but not 'free') support meant I had the same opportunity for higher education as a richy rich kid from the private school. Infact where I'm from most of the private school kids turned out to be dip$hits but that's another thread..
    Last edited by VicPark; 24-09-2013 at 21:41.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Born equal: no.
    Equal opportunity: for the most part.
    I'm slightly confused by your first answer as I think it contradicts your second answer.

    Anyway. As a teacher I strongly disagree. Take away exclusive private schools, then maybe I would agree. But even in public schools, children do not come to school with the same experiences, education, readiness, etc.

    There are children that start school where I work who've never seen a book and can't recognise their own name, don't know alphabet, letters, numbers. This is in arguably Sydney's poorest post code.
    Last edited by BigRedV; 24-09-2013 at 21:37.


 

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