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  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I disagree. Subsidised assistance yes... But free childcare/university? That's ridiculous. The country would go broke and well the economy would go up the crapper.

    At some point people have to grow some balls and contribute to their own economic and social well being.
    PS- these countries have been doing it for years. And they aren't broke - well they are now, due to the GFC - capitalism at work again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lili81 View Post
    I think FL said it all

    Free (or at least affordable) and good quality childcare is effectively what a nation need to provide equitable opportunities to both male and female employees.
    It's not a coincidence if only 53% of female employees work FT vs 84% of male employees.
    You can't fully blame the cost of childcare for lower female participation in the workplace.

    Once a bub is 1/has finished breastfeeding there is no reason for the woman to work part time and the man work full time. Sure perhaps it is more difficult for the man to go part time if their work wasnt as flexible. They could always change jobs and let the woman be the key breadwinner... If a couple organised their life where the woman works part time and the man works full time then perhaps its a conscious decision they made for lifestyle reasons: perhaps the mum prefers to stay home with the kids.

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    Oh really? Like you mean America? Or England? France? Spain? Greece. All countries that subscribe to your capitalist theories of people "growing balls" and sorting out their own economics. And all broke - economies down the crapper because capitalism just doesn't work.

    If you have a better idea - I am all ears. Sorry - but what your describing has already been done - and bombed badly.

    And I subscribe to the theory, if you have a healthy population that are educated, that saves governments money in the long run. If anything - America should be put on show as what not to do.
    I'm sorry free childcare/university is the most idealistic and ridiculous policy suggestion I have ever heard. Probably why no one has implemented it!

    We're better off creating policies that encourage businesses to invest in new adventures (lower tax, less paperwork, lower interest rates etc). Sure make training, education and childcare affordable through a partial subsidy (as per the current situation). But increasing the supply of labor without encouraging businesses to invest does not equal jobs and growth. Just a heap of educated unemployed people.
    Last edited by VicPark; 24-09-2013 at 17:51.

  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I'm sorry free childcare/university is the most idealistic, naive, ridiculous and unrealistic policy suggestion I have ever heard. Probably why no one has implemented it!
    You do realise we had free tertiary education up until 1989? My first year of university was free. The only costs were student uni and text books.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Busy-Bee View Post
    You do realise we had free tertiary education up until 1989? My first year of university was free. The only costs were student uni and text books.
    Yeah Whitlam hangover that sent the country broke!

    If I had to choose though I'd choose free Uni over free childcare. Free childcare just increases the labor market (educated, uneducated, in demand or not). At least free Uni may result in efficiency gains in the long run (if coupled with appropriate business policy only).
    Last edited by VicPark; 24-09-2013 at 18:53.

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    I'm sorry to burst your bubble VP, but many countries actually do it, and are doing it, right now as well speak. And they don't have a huge amount of educated unemployed.

    And we used to do it - until not that long ago in fact. Nobody implemented it? What the heck are you talking about?
    Where are you getting your views from? It certainly isn't from facts? Is this just what you think "may" happen if that comes into play?


    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I'm sorry free childcare/university is the most idealistic and ridiculous policy suggestion I have ever heard. Probably why no one has implemented it!

    We're better off creating policies that encourage businesses to invest in new adventures (lower tax, less paperwork, lower interest rates etc). Sure make training, education and childcare affordable through a partial subsidy (as per the current situation). But increasing the supply of labor without encouraging businesses to invest does not equal jobs and growth. Just a heap of educated unemployed people.

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    I'd pick free childcare over Uni! Otherwise too many people go just for the social aspects and also do plebby degrees that won't help them get a decent job.

    But I don't think either should be free. Although I vote Green I am definitely not socialist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I disagree. Subsidised assistance yes... But free childcare/university? That's ridiculous. The country would go broke and well the economy would go up the crapper.

    At some point people have to grow some balls and contribute to their own economic and social well being.
    Untrue? I don't know where you get these ideas from.

    All you have to do is look at Norway.
    Norway is ranked No. 1 in the world for productivity, measured by GDP per total hours worked, according to the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development. Canada comes 17th, behind Spain.

    “However, even after controlling for the rent [profits] from natural resources, Norway has high productivity. And more importantly, our relative productivity has increased a lot from the early 1990s to 2011, even after adjusting for natural resource rents,” explains Adne Cappelen, an economist at Statistics Norway.


    Mr. Cappelen attributes Norway’s high productivity to four main factors:


    1. A more educated work force, largely enabled by free university tuition;


    2. Outsourcing low-wage, low-productivity labour;


    3.Maximizing participation in the work force for skilled workers, (providing social support and flexible work for seniors and new parents);


    4. Equal distribution of income.
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle11959366/

    I think the sooner we start caring about one another instead of being so individualistic, we will see that if Australians help one another out, support each other, ensure more fairness and equity, more access for everyone, better free social services and, health and education, childcare etc. we will see an amazing difference in how far forward our country could go.

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  12. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by kw123 View Post
    I'd pick free childcare over Uni! Otherwise too many people go just for the social aspects and also do plebby degrees that won't help them get a decent job.

    But I don't think either should be free. Although I vote Green I am definitely not socialist.
    They still have to work hard - I think we were given 3 chances to pass any given subject and if a student failed 3 times they had to provide evidence of exceptional circumstances. I don't know where I stand on totally free tertiary education, although I do think today's HECS fees are too much. Maybe some sort of incentive that a subject was free or only nominal cost to pay on the first attempt and the costs went up if you failed and had to repeat. Just pondering out loud...

    I vote Green too and I wouldn't classify myself as a socialist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    I'm sorry to burst your bubble VP, but many countries actually do it, and are doing it, right now as well speak. And they don't have a huge amount of educated unemployed.

    And we used to do it - until not that long ago in fact. Nobody implemented it? What the heck are you talking about?
    Where are you getting your views from? It certainly isn't from facts? Is this just what you think "may" happen if that comes into play?
    When did we have free childcare for everyone?

    If a country does have free Uni and fee childcare then before you compare that country to Australia you need to compare a whole heap of different social and economic indicators.

    How do you think the Government should pay for such measures? Any cost benefits (if at all) will be many many years away.


 

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