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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathermy View Post
    To clarify I don't actually think this is about mr Abbott at all, I only mention it because the pamphlet is about labor and the gay marriage issue, and it's highly unlikely that the liberal stance on gay marriage could ever change with mr Abbott at the head, his personal beliefs prevent it, if it ever would have changed at all.
    Did the Labor stance change under Gillard with her personal beliefs against it?

  2. #72
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    lambjam is offline Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathermy View Post
    Fair point, as do I. On the basis that marriage is an institution which they want no part in anyway, which is quite different to the 'family values' line of the liberal party.

    I don't think the liberals are aiming at that particular audience though somehow...
    Sorry, I edited my post because I thought, in retrospect, that my own views weren't a necessary part of it.

    And I should clarify... I know ultra-conservative, card-carrying Liberals who are openly gay and believe that the definition of marriage shouldn't be changed to accommodate them. I cannot understand this view, but the fact is it is their view. And it does not make them homophobic, simply against gay marriage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    Did the Labor stance change under Gillard with her personal beliefs against it?
    I'm breaking the golden rule even dignifying this but you know quite well it didn't. As I said, if it would have changed at all... I'm not sure that the liberal stance would change regardless of who is their leader, but I don't think anyone really believes that it's ever likely to change under Mr Abbott. I mean really.

    I'm not even convinced Mr Rudds personal stance has changed but the labor party's position has and that's what matters.

    My point still stands the fact that this pamphlet exists at all is far worse than the OP accusing the libs of creating it yet some people felt more inclined to jump on her than the actual vile content.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathermy View Post
    I'm breaking the golden rule even dignifying this but you know quite well it didn't.
    Labor didn't change it's position under Gillard? They went from opposition, to a conscience vote under her Prime Ministership. Despite her being opposed to it herself. It wasn't that long ago.

  6. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathermy View Post
    I'm not even convinced Mr Rudds personal stance has changed but the labor party's position has and that's what matters.
    And thank goodness, because his party doesn't allow people to express individual opinions that differ from the official party line. The Liberal party, however, does allow its members to make their own opinions known without expelling them.

    Even if Abbott remains anti-gay marriage his party may yet sway him.

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  8. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    I know homosexuals who are against gay marriage. How do they fit into your rigid definition?
    There were also African Americans who were against pushing for civil rights. That doesn't make them correct.

    I absolutely hate it when someone brings that argument up.

    In any group of marginalized people you will find some that do not believe things should change.

    My daughter is gay and I take personal offense when people say its not a pressing issue. My daughter's human rights are of great importance, all of the time.
    Last edited by sockstealingpoltergeist; 04-09-2013 at 13:22.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    Sorry, I edited my post because I thought, in retrospect, that my own views weren't a necessary part of it.

    And I should clarify... I know ultra-conservative, card-carrying Liberals who are openly gay and believe that the definition of marriage shouldn't be changed to accommodate them. I cannot understand this view, but the fact is it is their view. And it does not make them homophobic, simply against gay marriage.
    Lol, ok I admit defeat

    Gives self spanking for making sweeping generalisation! Tutt tutt. Only minor sarcasm there, I genuinely should know better.

    There are obviously exceptions but I still believe for the most part the anti gay marriage stance is generally, ( ) based on homophobic views.

    Particularly for those not homosexual themselves..

    but I would dearly love to hear some other explanations for it.

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    I am so disgusted by that flyer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    Sorry, I edited my post because I thought, in retrospect, that my own views weren't a necessary part of it.

    And I should clarify... I know ultra-conservative, card-carrying Liberals who are openly gay and believe that the definition of marriage shouldn't be changed to accommodate them. I cannot understand this view, but the fact is it is their view. And it does not make them homophobic, simply against gay marriage.
    I know one gay person against gay marriage- he was raised a catholic. He was raised on the church's definition of marriage. He's no card carrying liberal but he is still a product of his upbringing. I think it's sad that discriminatory views have been drummed into him so hard that even he can't see it. That's just one example, of course. And to paraphrase him, just because marriage equality becomes legal, there is no onus on him to marry but if others want to- none of anyone else's business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sockstealingpoltergeist View Post
    There were also African Americans who were against pushing for civil rights. That doesn't make them correct.

    I absolutely hate it when someone brings that argument up.

    In any group of marginalized people you will find some that do not believe things should change.

    My daughter is gay and I take personal offense when people say its not a pressing issue. My daughters human rights are of great importance, all of the time.
    No matter how you spin it, it doesn't justify the use of the word "homophobic".

    Violation of civil rights? Sure. Oppression, injustice, discrimination? 100%. But not homophobic.

    And don't make the mistake of assuming that the people I speak of are somehow so battered and bullied that they don't believe themselves worthy, or some nonsense. These are not brow-beaten people skulking in the shadows. Your assumption that this is the only reason they could possibly be opposed is, frankly, offensive.
    Last edited by lambjam; 04-09-2013 at 11:40.

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