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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    Well actually yes, that is my personal view. I don't give two hoots what other people do, but I just can't see the point of it personally unless i was worried about living in sin in the eyes of God.
    I don't show up on DP's family tree, despite having been together with him for much longer than some of those who married into his family..purely because we are not married by law.

  2. #142
    lambjam's Avatar
    lambjam is offline Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Busy-Bee View Post
    I've come across women who are anti-feminist. It doesn't lessen the argument that women should enjoy the same social, political and economic equality as men.
    I didn't suggest anything of the sort. I suggested that it's ridiculous to call someone "homophobic" based on their opinions on gay marriage, given that some homosexuals themselves aren't in favour of gay marriage.

  3. #143
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    Busy-Bee is offline Offending people since before Del :D
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    I didn't suggest anything of the sort. I suggested that it's ridiculous to call someone "homophobic" based on their opinions on gay marriage, given that some homosexuals themselves aren't in favour of gay marriage.
    I guess it would depend on how 'anti' they are. If a gay person actively argued against marriage equality they I would say they are homophobic. If they just thought "meh, doesn't bother me either way" then more likely just apathetic. I'd also be interested to know what grounds they argue against gay marriage.

    Similarly, if a woman was to argue against feminism (and by feminism I mean social, political, economic equality - not some silly idea about having hairy legs and hating men) then she would be anti-feminist and/or part of the patriarchal establishment.

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  5. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Busy-Bee View Post
    I guess it would depend on how 'anti' they are. If a gay person actively argued against marriage equality they I would say they are homophobic.
    People's notions of marriage are based on all kinds of things. To suggest that an active, float-riding member of the gay community is *homophobic* because they believe in the traditions they were raised with is ridiculous.

    And now, once again, I'm in a position where I'm forced to look as though I'm defending something I find abhorrent, simply because BubHub loves to get on a roll and hates to see facts get in the way of a good story.

    I hate Abbott, and marriage equality is one of the issues in our country closest to my heart, second only perhaps to euthanasia. But I'll call nonsense when I see it.

    It really takes me back to high school.

    "Lucy slept with Annie's boyfriend."
    "Oh that's terrible."
    "Yes, and I heard she's a satanist and a puppy killer too."
    "We'll, I'm pretty sure she's not a..."
    "YOU'RE ON HER SIDE?!"

    Clearly it's time for me to leave the political threads. I'll see you all on the other side of the election.

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  7. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    People's notions of marriage are based on all kinds of things. To suggest that an active, float-riding member of the gay community is *homophobic* because they believe in the traditions they were raised with is ridiculous.

    And now, once again, I'm in a position where I'm forced to look as though I'm defending something I find abhorrent, simply because BubHub loves to get on a roll and hates to see facts get in the way of a good story.

    I hate Abbott, and marriage equality is one of the issues in our country closest to my heart, second only perhaps to euthanasia. But I'll call nonsense when I see it.

    It really takes me back to high school.

    "Lucy slept with Annie's boyfriend."
    "Oh that's terrible."
    "Yes, and I heard she's a satanist and a puppy killer too."
    "We'll, I'm pretty sure she's not a..."
    "YOU'RE ON HER SIDE?!"

    Clearly it's time for me to leave the political threads. I'll see you all on the other side of the election.
    While I agree that being against gay marriage doesn't automatically make one homophobic, I don't think the logic is as black and white as you see it. I agree that one could be gay but oppose gay marriage based on their cultural or philosophical views about marriage. But I can also see how denying a gay person the right to marry could be a facet of homophobia.

    I can see both sides of the argument as it would depend on why a person was denying the right to gay marriage.
    Last edited by Sonja; 04-09-2013 at 16:38.

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  9. #146
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    I think some people genuinely have personal spiritual or philosophical objections to marriage equality.

    I think these arguements provide cover for a lot of other people who's opposition to marriage equality is based on homophobia.

    I also think those opposed to marriage equality are on the wrong side of civil rights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlayNice View Post
    I also think those opposed to marriage equality are on the wrong side of civil rights.
    and are not open-minded, and believe everybody should think like them. You do have to wonder how someone who is opposed to marriage equality views their own marriage... What are/ were their own reasons for marrying? 'Because I'm male and she's female' or vies versa, would be a very strange answer!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlayNice View Post
    I think some people genuinely have personal spiritual or philosophical objections to marriage equality.

    I think these arguements provide cover for a lot of other people who's opposition to marriage equality is based on homophobia.

    I also think those opposed to marriage equality are on the wrong side of civil rights.
    Just because an objection is spiritual or philosophical, it's still not acceptable either, iykwim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Just because an objection is spiritual or philosophical, it's still not acceptable either, iykwim.
    Correct, but it also doesn't mean it's homophobic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    Correct, but it also doesn't mean it's homophobic.
    See, I kind if think it does. Or at least, that's where it is rooted. Like the friend I mentioned who is gay yet against gay marriage- his view stems from a catholic upbringing. It's in debate whether or not homosexuality is even against biblical teachings, when you put it in context and acknowledge the word homosexual did not appear in the bible til 1946 etc- it seems to me that churches made a decision about how they wished to interpret parts of the bible- and this is one of those. Other parts are seen as ridiculous or outdated, but not this for some reason. My interpretation of that choice is that it is rooted in homophobia more so than scripture. So while someone may claim their objection is spiritual, based on church doctrine, it's all coming from the same place, essentially. Sorry, I'm probably rambling, but hopefully you see what I mean

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