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  1. #121
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    I can't make it a picture.. But I found it oddly appropriate for this conversation..

    http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/or...231bbf81ca.jpg

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  3. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    This makes sense. But in that situation, they wouldn't need to be married by the Church to keep peace with their god.
    However, your argument remains moot to the numerous people, gay or straight, religious or otherwise, who want to be married (or are married) in a secular ceremony. I don't care if you think people shouldn't get married unless they're doing it for religious reasons. It's not fair that my parents could have a civil marriage with a celebrant, but I can't because my partner and I have the same genitals.

    The problem is that marriage is considered a human right, and denying it to a proportion of people based on sexuality (or race, as was once illegal) is a violation of that human right.

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  5. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennaisme View Post
    I can't make it a picture.. But I found it oddly appropriate for this conversation..

    http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/or...231bbf81ca.jpg
    Hahaha!

  6. #124
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    It makes them homosexuals that are against marriage. Anyone can be against marriage. It is only when you are against marriage for a particular subset that there is a problem - that is where the prejudice comes in, against inter-racial marriage or against gay marriage - like TA.

    I was thinking about this before, the only way that a person could possibly be completely against gay marriage, is if they don't view homosexuals as - well, not the same, not as equals. How is it possible to say that one is ok with homosexuals, but then deny them a basic thing that everyone else is able to do? I think there is definitely homophobia on Tony Abbots part.

    I personally have no idea why anyone would fight so hard to get married, it means no more to me than two people living together as a couple - but, that isn't my call, if people want to get married - who is anyone to stop them?

    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    I know homosexuals who are against gay marriage. How do they fit into your rigid definition?

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  8. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    But, really, this puzzles me even more. Why would you want to be part of a church that doesn't approve of your lifestyle? Surely it is hypocritical - I have faith in the teachings of this church, oh but I would like it to change its teachings to fit my own personal beliefs?
    I assume you mean Christian church? Do you abide by the absolute word of the Bible and/or church? No clothing of mixed threads, execute disobedient children, wives to be obedient to their husbands, etc

    This man lived biblically for one year. In his preparation he read a number of bibles and came up with a list of over 700 'rules'. It's a very interesting watch!

    http://www.ted.com/talks/a_j_jacobs_...iblically.html

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  10. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainbow road View Post
    However, your argument remains moot to the numerous people, gay or straight, religious or otherwise, who want to be married (or are married) in a secular ceremony. I don't care if you think people shouldn't get married unless they're doing it for religious reasons. It's not fair that my parents could have a civil marriage with a celebrant, but I can't because my partner and I have the same genitals.

    The problem is that marriage is considered a human right, and denying it to a proportion of people based on sexuality (or race, as was once illegal) is a violation of that human right.
    Ok, look, i don't mean to offend. I get that it is important to many people and that's fine. I'm in no way against gay marriage, I just don't get why it's so important - and that's fine too, people don't all have to feel strongly about the same issues.
    For me, a public ceremony that recognises our commitment to each other is enough, I don't understand what signing a piece of paper adds to that. The only thing in Witwicky's post above that applies is the immediate legal recognition that marriage gives a couple, but surely most people who get married have already been in a relationship for a couple of years and therefore are already entitled to the same things as a married couple.

    But yes, if non-religious straights feel the need to do it, why not gays.

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  12. #127
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    How can you just switch off your beliefs like that? I know some gay catholics, who attend a progressive catholic church, they don't talk about homosexuality being ok, they just don't talk about it at all. But these people really believe, to their core, that God is real and they are Catholics, they don't believe that the Catholics have it right about homosexuality - just like lots of other catholics out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    Yes, I'm aware - thanks for the condescending tone though.

    But, really, this puzzles me even more. Why would you want to be part of a church that doesn't approve of your lifestyle? Surely it is hypocritical - I have faith in the teachings of this church, oh but I would like it to change its teachings to fit my own personal beliefs?

  13. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    I know homosexuals who are against gay marriage. How do they fit into your rigid definition?
    I've come across women who are anti-feminist. It doesn't lessen the argument that women should enjoy the same social, political and economic equality as men.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Busy-Bee View Post
    I assume you mean Christian church? Do you abide by the absolute word of the Bible and/or church? No clothing of mixed threads, execute disobedient children, wives to be obedient to their husbands, etc

    This man lived biblically for one year. In his preparation he read a number of bibles and came up with a list of over 700 'rules'. It's a very interesting watch!

    http://www.ted.com/talks/a_j_jacobs_...iblically.html
    Ha! Me? No, I don't abide by anything the church tells me to do!

    But, the anti-gay marriage stance isn't some obscure rule buried in the Bible somewhere, it is one of the Catholic Church's official, and very vocal teachings. I think there is a difference between an individual's interpretation of the Bible and what the Church's official stance is.

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  17. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    Ok, look, i don't mean to offend. I get that it is important to many people and that's fine. I'm in no way against gay marriage, I just don't get why it's so important - and that's fine too, people don't all have to feel strongly about the same issues.
    For me, a public ceremony that recognises our commitment to each other is enough, I don't understand what signing a piece of paper adds to that. The only thing in Witwicky's post above that applies is the immediate legal recognition that marriage gives a couple, but surely most people who get married have already been in a relationship for a couple of years and therefore are already entitled to the same things as a married couple.

    But yes, if non-religious straights feel the need to do it, why not gays.
    I've been with my DP for almost 3 years (well and truly defacto) and have just gone through an arduous and expensive change of name process, and if I want to get my name altered on my passports without paying for brand new passports (they expire in 7 years) now need to go through an arduous and expensive process of getting our relationship registered so that I have a 'legitimate' reason for my name change.

    Yes we have the same rights as a defacto straight couple but it is a lot more challenging and expensive not having that handy certificate that 'proves' us.

    And I guess it doesn't seem as important to you because you have the luxury of the choice to marry or not. When you're the one having your rights squashed it seems like a lot of a big deal. If we were allowed to be married, truthfully, we probably wouldn't get married anyway. Not for any reason other than the convenience in the above situations. However, I still believe we have the right to make that choice, as does every other same sex couple out there.

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