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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    And this is exactly the kind of thing that is upsetting me so much about BubHub and much of the Australian public right now, this insistence on over-generalising specifics and applying very emotive language where there's not enough proof or justification to do so, simply because it serves to consolidate a position.

    The Liberal party are against gay marriage. Homophobes!
    Tony Abbott makes sexist gaffes. Misogynist!

    Surely we can be better than that kind of sensationalised nonsense?
    As and aside I'm curious to know why you think the liberal party is anti gay marriage?

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    In a discussion with some Christian friends yesterday, we concluded that although the bible does not use those words, the bible makes many references to slaves/slavery, yet does not condemn the practice, so it's not an illogical leap to say that in the bible, slavery is a normal condition. Hope that helps.
    Not at all.
    Yes, it does make many references to slavery. All in the negative. God used Moses to get the Israelites OUT of slavery. The message doesn't get much bigger and more obvious than that.

    Or a New Testament quote:

    We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrinethat conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
    1 Timothy 1:8-11 if you would like to read it yourself.

    Again, I have no idea how Rudd came to that conclusion other than to think that he was using an episode of West Wing to base his position on. Very sad if that is the case.

  3. #93
    lambjam's Avatar
    lambjam is offline Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathermy View Post
    As and aside I'm curious to know why you think the liberal party is anti gay marriage?
    Sorry, you are completely right. I got carried away and mis-worded that.

    The Liberal Party has made it clear it has no intention of changing the legal definition of marriage at this point. This could be because it's simply not a priority for them right now and they may get around to it in the future, it could be because it's something they're opposed to.

    Were gay marriage already in place and they proposed changing it back, then it would be fair to say they were "anti".

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    I've puzzled over this for a while, so I may as well ask the question; what rights do you gain from being legally married? My understanding is that you basically have the same rights whether you are in a defacto relationship or a registered marriage. I also think (but I may be wrong) that same sex couples defacto relationships are legally recognised. So what is the benefit of actually signing the bit of paper? I always thought marriage really only made sense on religious grounds, not legal grounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    Not at all.
    Yes, it does make many references to slavery. All in the negative. God used Moses to get the Israelites OUT of slavery. The message doesn't get much bigger and more obvious than that.

    Or a quote:



    1 Timothy 1:8-11 if you would like to read it yourself.

    Again, I have no idea how Rudd came to that conclusion other than to think that he was using an episode of West Wing to base his position on. Very sad if that is the case.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the bible didn't actually contain the word "homosexuality" did it? That didn't appear in the bible until 1946. My understanding is that there is much contention between bible scholars regarding this interpretation, with one side certain the bible speaks against homosexuality and the other saying the text contained unusual or difficult to translate words as well as historical context that supports the argument that it does not actually refer to homosexuality as an orientation.

    Regarding slavery, you may find this link interesting.
    http://www.religioustolerance.org/sla_bibl2.htm

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  8. #96
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    Witwicky is offline A closed mouth gathers no foot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    Not at all.
    Yes, it does make many references to slavery. All in the negative. God used Moses to get the Israelites OUT of slavery. The message doesn't get much bigger and more obvious than that.

    Or a New Testament quote:



    1 Timothy 1:8-11 if you would like to read it yourself.

    Again, I have no idea how Rudd came to that conclusion other than to think that he was using an episode of West Wing to base his position on. Very sad if that is the case.
    There are actually many, many bible references where god speaks of slavery as a normality, particularly in Leviticus and Exodus

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  10. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    I've puzzled over this for a while, so I may as well ask the question; what rights do you gain from being legally married? My understanding is that you basically have the same rights whether you are in a defacto relationship or a registered marriage. I also think (but I may be wrong) that same sex couples defacto relationships are legally recognised. So what is the benefit of actually signing the bit of paper? I always thought marriage really only made sense on religious grounds, not legal grounds.
    Marriage was a legal contract well before it was a religious one.

    My understanding is that some things, like accessing the family law court, require you to be a defacto for a minimum of two years- not the case for people who are married.

    By your logic, no one but the religious should get married??

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    beebs  (04-09-2013),Monkey'sMummy  (04-09-2013),snowqu33n  (04-09-2013),Witwicky  (04-09-2013),~ElectricPink~  (04-09-2013)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the bible didn't actually contain the word "homosexuality" did it? That didn't appear in the bible until 1946. My understanding is that there is much contention between bible scholars regarding this interpretation, with one side certain the bible speaks against homosexuality and the other saying the text contained unusual or difficult to translate words as well as historical context that supports the argument that it does not actually refer to homosexuality as an orientation.

    Regarding slavery, you may find this link interesting.
    http://www.religioustolerance.org/sla_bibl2.htm
    I quote you a reference in that Bible that shows that slavery is ungodly and sinful, and you respond with a link that doesn't even mention that quote in their list of slavery references.

    I'm not sure when the word 'homosexuality' first appeared in the Bible, I might look into that, but I don't see the relevance to Rudd's interpretation of slavery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    By your logic, no one but the religious should get married??
    Well actually yes, that is my personal view. I don't give two hoots what other people do, but I just can't see the point of it personally unless i was worried about living in sin in the eyes of God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Witwicky View Post
    There are actually many, many bible references where god speaks of slavery as a normality, particularly in Leviticus and Exodus
    Slavery was around, but did God like it? Homosexuality was around, but did God like it? Rudd's comment just doesn't make any sense.

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