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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Star Light View Post
    I'm sorry but i'm still finding it really hard to figure out why what VicPark is saying is apparently so wrong??
    For me it's neither right nor wrong, just flawed logic that confuses me and I was genuinely trying to understand it from her view point because obviously it's a logical argument for her but it's just not making sense to me. Going around in circles wasn't doing anything though so I've just agreed to disagree and not understerstand her viewpoint. Which is odd, usually I understand her and for the most part just disagree.

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  3. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I can only speak for myself here. But if someone wasn't managing their money properly and demanding more money so they could go on more holidays I would agree it's pretty silly and a bit self entitled.

    But there are lots of different groups on payments, as I outlined earlier, that aren't just 'dole bludgers' sitting on their butts doing nothing. Surely a student studying for a degree, bettering themselves who can scrap up $500 to go see family interstate isn't a bad thing? Or a single mum with small children who desperately needs a break so saves for a year to go on a girls weekend?

    I agree CL shouldn't be paying heaps or there would be no incentive. But if someone on disability can scrimp and save for a year to buy themselves something nice then who cares?

    People would be incredulous if this discussion was about tax payer funded PPL or FTB....
    It has been made quite clear already that we are not talking about people on disability, pensions, single parent payments (people who obviously are UNABLE to work) so i'm not sure why that keeps being brought up?

  4. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    What's your stance on FTB? which is a payment where there is usually one bread winner to even out the fact a 2 income household get 2 lots of tax free threshold.

    So a hypothetical. A family where Dad works, Mum looks after 2 small children. For a whole year the cut all their costs and bank a proportion of her FTB, going without pretty much any wants. At the end of the year they have a grand saved. Are they still not allowed to go on a holiday given FTB is still tax payer funded money?

    If not, what should the family do with the money? Should they just be frivolous so as not to have any savings? I know you said families should only get enough for the bare essentials but what if families even on that amount scrimp and save? should they have it taken off them?
    I don't get FTB so perhaps I don't understand it properly... Is it like a single income family getting 2 tax free thresholds?

  5. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Star Light View Post
    It has been made quite clear already that we are not talking about people on disability, pensions, single parent payments (people who obviously are UNABLE to work) so i'm not sure why that keeps being brought up?
    Partly bc they was added in later on. Partly bc in reality, the people on CL who are just doing squat, not looking for work/studying/caring for children/sick family is actually tiny.

    As I said before, Newstart has some pretty tight restrictions and has for some time. You have to apply for lots of jobs or your payments are cut. You have to do work for the dole or your payments are cut.

    So my point is, that the group you are aiming at hardly exists. If you aren't talking about all the above, that leaves the dole, and even that has very tight rules now to qualify and to stay on payments.

  6. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I don't get FTB so perhaps I don't understand it properly... Is it like a single income family getting 2 tax free thresholds?
    Kind of. If you have Dad working, mum at home they are only getting 1 tax free threshold. So say he earns 50k. He gets a tax free of 16k is it now? But a 2 income family will get 2 lots of 16k, so 32k tax free.

    So FTB is a payment designed to help out single income and low income families to even the playing field a little bit.

  7. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Kind of. If you have Dad working, mum at home they are only getting 1 tax free threshold. So say he earns 50k. He gets a tax free of 16k is it now? But a 2 income family will get 2 lots of 16k, so 32k tax free.

    So FTB is a payment designed to help out single income and low income families to even the playing field a little bit.
    It's capped at $150,000 family income?

    Hmm. I need to think about this more. My first instinct is to say I don't think families with a stay at home parent should get it. If a family has 2 adults and they want 2 tax free thresholds then the second adult should get a job.

    My second thought is if families are using the money to save up for overseas holidays and house deposits (yeah i know not that common) then perhaps they don't really need it. If they are using it to buy food and school uniforms then perhaps they do. If the cut-off is 150,000 perhaps it needs to be much lower. I would prefer for more money to be given to families who really need it.
    - just preliminary thoughts, I will sleep on it.

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  9. #307
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    It's not just for single income families. I know my bro and sil were getting ftb while she was working too. It's all just based on income and is designed to give families a bit of extra assistance. This can explain it more http://www.humanservices.gov.au/cust...-part-a-part-b

  10. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Partly bc they was added in later on. Partly bc in reality, the people on CL who are just doing squat, not looking for work/studying/caring for children/sick family is actually tiny.

    As I said before, Newstart has some pretty tight restrictions and has for some time. You have to apply for lots of jobs or your payments are cut. You have to do work for the dole or your payments are cut.

    So my point is, that the group you are aiming at hardly exists. If you aren't talking about all the above, that leaves the dole, and even that has very tight rules now to qualify and to stay on payments.
    You say it's rare - but we must live in different worlds, because I seem to be surrounded by people who are cheating the system in some way.

    For example, I know three people who are currently claiming single parent payments while in relationships. One of which brings in more money than me while working three days a week. And yes, they brag about paying off cars and buying nice things etc. Why shouldn't this **** people off? They can't really have stats on the number of people who are misusing the system, because they haven't caught many of them! Trust me, they are out there.

    Sorry this is off topic.

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  12. #309
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    But you and Del aren't talking about the same types of people. People that defraud the system are going to do so regardless. Del is talking about people who are on it because they are entitled to it. You cannot compare the two.

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  14. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Partly bc they was added in later on. Partly bc in reality, the people on CL who are just doing squat, not looking for work/studying/caring for children/sick family is actually tiny.

    As I said before, Newstart has some pretty tight restrictions and has for some time. You have to apply for lots of jobs or your payments are cut. You have to do work for the dole or your payments are cut.

    So my point is, that the group you are aiming at hardly exists. If you aren't talking about all the above, that leaves the dole, and even that has very tight rules now to qualify and to stay on payments.
    I know someone who worked and received new start as that's how it's "supposed" to work. Because they weren't earning enough. How is that right? They own an investment property don't pay rent and have an expensive new car.
    They have been on and off the system for yrs and I know someone else who has been on the dole their whole life and lives comfortably as she had kids and then got housing. She hasn't worked a day in her life. Now I'm sorry but that is wrong everyone should work at least at some point and it's not that being a stay at home parent as she hasn't worked long before she had kids and legitamet disability .


 

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