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  1. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    The countries that look after their most vulnerable generally do better economically, in academics, they have less problems relating to alcohol, less dependence on the state, lower levels of crime.
    Absolutely.

    Countries that penalize people and ensure they have less and less tend to have more people that get further entrenched in poverty.
    Its difficult enough to get ahead in life, but when a system is designed to punish you rather then support you are more likely to get stuck in a cycle.

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  3. #292
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    There is too much grey area. 'Get ahead' is such a broad statement.' It really is a ridiculous argument.

    The only time someone else's money is my business is when they don't have any and I am able to help them. That's all.

  4. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louise41 View Post
    Everyone is entitled to spend their centrelink benefits how they want but what irks me is those who spend their benefits on drugs, alcohol, smoking, gambling and then cry that they cant afford to house, feed or clothe their family...

    I am a firm believer in the card system ..certain payments available on a card that can only be used for food , clothing or rent...

    yes i get centerlink- i get FTB A & B and its hardly enough to buy a trolley full of groceries but i am thankful for the small amount I get as it allows me to contribute to the household expenses whilst i am studying and looking for work.
    One little thing first (and it's not directed solely at you Lousie)..... Family Assistance is actually a different department to centrelink. Yes you deal with centrelink to get it but it comes from a whole different "kitty".

    Anyway. The Basics card is honestly the worst thing I could think of for someone living off benefits. Sure you can pay phone/internet, electricity, rent, fuel, clothes and food but there is more to life than those expenses. The kettle breaks so what then? Can't go buy a new one because it won't be accepted on the basics card. You'd have to boil water on the stove. I make my own clothes and clothes for my son but I wouldn't be able to anymore because I couldn't purchase the fabric on the card. I get my fruit and vege from an online place that delivers. It's not the main supermarkets so that wouldn't be allowed either. I buy a cask of wine every now and then to use in cooking and occasionally I like to have a cider (last time was 3 months ago so it's very occasionally) but I wouldn't be allowed to do that either. And there are so many other things that just couldn't be done with that card. Car maintenence, any online shopping, little luxuries like DVD rentals or that occasional take away meal....the list could go on but I'm sure you get the picture. Yes, it has been shown to help those who do have proven problems with drugs, alcohol and gambling but it should never be introduced for the general welfare population.

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  6. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I don't think anyone disagrees with that. What people disagree about is the extent to which someone should be able to 'get ahead' while living off welfare.
    What's your stance on FTB? which is a payment where there is usually one bread winner to even out the fact a 2 income household get 2 lots of tax free threshold.

    So a hypothetical. A family where Dad works, Mum looks after 2 small children. For a whole year the cut all their costs and bank a proportion of her FTB, going without pretty much any wants. At the end of the year they have a grand saved. Are they still not allowed to go on a holiday given FTB is still tax payer funded money?

    If not, what should the family do with the money? Should they just be frivolous so as not to have any savings? I know you said families should only get enough for the bare essentials but what if families even on that amount scrimp and save? should they have it taken off them?

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  8. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by sockstealingpoltergeist View Post
    Absolutely.

    Countries that penalize people and ensure they have less and less tend to have more people that get further entrenched in poverty.
    Its difficult enough to get ahead in life, but when a system is designed to punish you rather then support you are more likely to get stuck in a cycle.
    Yes, I agree. It saddens me that Australia is going more and more down this route. The gap between rich and poor - actually even between middle and poor is getting bigger and bigger even in my lifetime. (IMO)

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  10. #296
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    I used single parenting payments to 'get ahead' and leave an abusive relationship. Anyone who doesn't think I "deserved" that is a giant poo.

    Lots of people use student allowances to 'get ahead' with their career by studying and this benefits the whole community.

    In my experience financially it was merely surviving and was not viable for the long-term.

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  12. #297
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    Seriously this thread has been terrible in places.

    If somebody has been able to live on an absolute shoestring to get a little bit of money in the bank ( say $1000) why get out the pitch forks? Good on them, can't believe people would want to take it off them.

    Whether anybody likes it or not and oh boy there has been a couple that vehemently have not, it's their money to do as they blardy well please.

    So suck it up.

    I mean really, I haver never seen anybody living solely on benefits living any sort of high life , it's hand to mouth, day to day, week to week. That's the reality, not overseas holidays and house deposits. How ridiculous.

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  14. #298
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    How it can really be seen as a system designed to punish people i'll probably never understand. In the end we should feel so lucky to live in a country that supports its people at all, because their are a hell of a lot of people out there who aren't so lucky.

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  16. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Ok this is the last time I am going to attempt to answer your question. If you don't understand or agree with my answer im sorry, but I won't be answering this question again.

    I don't think someone who is on an adequate amount of welfare should be in a position where they can save up enough money for a 'big' overseas holiday. By the time you pay for incidentals a Bali trip is going to be more than $1,000 for a small family.

    If someone can afford to save $1000's while on welfare then that should be re-invested in something that can help get them off welfare (education, work clothes, interview coaching, childcare, moving to an area with more jobs etc) not be flittered away on something that will do stuff all to get them off the welfare cycle.

    If someone has saved up thousands while on welfare and doesn't have it earmarked for an investment in getting themselves off welfare then I think Centrelink should look long and hard at reducing their payments.
    I'm sorry but i'm still finding it really hard to figure out why what VicPark is saying is apparently so wrong??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Star Light View Post
    I'm sorry but i'm still finding it really hard to figure out why what VicPark is saying is apparently so wrong??
    I can only speak for myself here. But if someone wasn't managing their money properly and demanding more money so they could go on more holidays I would agree it's pretty silly and a bit self entitled.

    But there are lots of different groups on payments, as I outlined earlier, that aren't just 'dole bludgers' sitting on their butts doing nothing. Surely a student studying for a degree, bettering themselves who can scrap up $500 to go see family interstate isn't a bad thing? Or a single mum with small children who desperately needs a break so saves for a year to go on a girls weekend?

    I agree CL shouldn't be paying heaps or there would be no incentive. But if someone on disability can scrimp and save for a year to buy themselves something nice then who cares?

    People would be incredulous if this discussion was about tax payer funded PPL or FTB....

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