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  1. #151
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    Also 'paying tax' does not mean you are propping up those on welfare, i'm pretty sure your tax dollars goes much further than just to welfare recipients. Do you begrudge pensioners too??

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  3. #152
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    I haven't read the whole thread but l'm not sure what "centrelink payments" refers to.....are people referring to long term unemployed, or anyone unemployed, or someone just receiving ftb or fta etc.

    Personally l do have an issue with an able bodied person choosing not to work and then being able to buy themselves new tvs, cars, game consoles, mobiles, tablets, holidays etc. l'm talking about a couple where neither bothers to work, not a single parent caring for children. I think they instill in their kids the same attitude that you don't need to do anything and that getting welfare handouts for doing nothing is a right. .....and that's how generations of newstart dependent families start.

    In my opinion, welfare payments are not a right...it is a privilege. If welfare payments are a right then everyone should receive it. I do fully support helping out single parents, short term unemployed and the disabled.

    Personally l have no experience on whether you can get ahead on welfare payments...l would think that if you're on newstart solely it would be quite hard but once you add all the additional benefits with having several kids l think it would definitely be possible.

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    Last edited by Night Owl; 01-09-2013 at 23:01.

  4. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by V8 View Post
    I think it just demonstrates that on the outset people who see Izy going on an overseas holiday (or myself for that matter) will be like, how on earth can they afford that? That would be most people's original assumption. To then demonstrate that she was able to afford that because she was staying with relatives is irrelevant, so now it's acceptable to you cause it wasn't 'tax payer's money'. Really?
    You're right. It's all about perspective. I mentioned right at the beginning of the thread that I couldn't imagine families living solely on welfare affording holidays. Someone pointed out how it was possible.

    I approached it from my own personal perspective. Anyone living where I do - and it's hardly a posh area - would struggle to have anything to spare. But obviously not everywhere in Australia is as expensive.

    We all have different realities.

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  6. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by V8 View Post
    I think it just demonstrates that on the outset people who see Izy going on an overseas holiday (or myself for that matter) will be like, how on earth can they afford that? That would be most people's original assumption. To then demonstrate that she was able to afford that because she was staying with relatives is irrelevant, so now it's acceptable to you cause it wasn't 'tax payer's money'. Really?
    In a thread about whether you can get ahead on welfare... That has turned into a should you be able to get ahead on welfare....how someone could think to not include that the fact their overseas holiday was under partly by family is beyond me.

    And yes. An overseas trip funded partly by family instead of the taxpayer is Absolutley 100% more acceptable to me.
    Last edited by VicPark; 01-09-2013 at 21:05.

  7. #155
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    I don't doubt that there are those that wrought the system. I wouldn't imagine them to be in great numbers though. Does anyone have any figures on this btw?

    Also, it's not right to penalise the majority who do the right thing just because of the ones that don't. Otherwise we end up with everyone being treated like the lowest common denominator abd there is no way that is if any benefit to society, let alone individuals.

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    Please excuse my terrible typos, my phone won't let me edit!

  9. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by OurLittleBlessing View Post
    I don't doubt that there are those that wrought the system. I wouldn't imagine them to be in great numbers though. Does anyone have any figures on this btw?

    Also, it's not right to penalise the majority who do the right thing just because of the ones that don't. Otherwise we end up with everyone being treated like the lowest common denominator abd there is no way that is if any benefit to society, let alone individuals.
    Many many years ago I was working on the defence of a well known politician who was accused of rorting his expenses. One of my jobs was to go through the many Centrelink prosecutions and judgments to work out what he was likely to face.

    To answer your question, it is extremely difficult to quantify as it's not just people claiming fraudulently, but also extends to people claiming benefits like Newstart when they are not actively looking for work. So it's tricky to put a number on.

    But in terms of fraud generally, income tax avoidance costs the government more, but also so does fraud by small business failing to declare GST or doing cash work / receiving undeclared cash payments. That costs the gov't far more than centrelink fraud.

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  11. #158
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    Thanks Sonja, yep that makes sense.

  12. #159
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    HugsBunny is offline Once upon a time there was a bunny.........
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    And yes. An overseas trip funded partly by family instead of the taxpayer is Absolutley 100% more acceptable to me.
    But this begs the question VP..... WTF should someone have to justify that their OS trip was a 'visiting family trip' so they didn't have to pay for accommodation or food? Maybe izy budgeted for those things and was surprised when she got there? Is that not OK with you??

    FFS my sole income is ftb, cs and pps - I can pay off a $22k solicitors bill (because my Xh is an a-hole).... obviously I'm cheat too.

    And ftr - I DO pay tax on my pps. I actually paid more in tax last ywar than i got back. No I didn't work. Get some perspective, walk in our shoes before you tell us we can't do this, we can't do that and we should live on food stamps.

    Harp on and on about 'breaking the cycle' of poverty but if things were the way you wanted VP, it would be harder to break that cycle.

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  14. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by sockstealingpoltergeist View Post
    Wealthy people get rich off of other people and resources.
    Quote Originally Posted by sockstealingpoltergeist View Post
    Wealthy people get rich off of other people and resources.
    No, my DH got rich by having an education, studying years for a uni degree and working damn hard to climb the corporate ladder.

    Why is it that "poor" people always think "rich" people should throw their hard earned dollars up in the air like it is of no object to them!?!?

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