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  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    Maybe that's why some religious people support same sex marriages and some people who aren't religious dont (Julia Gillard comes to mind)
    I find it difficult to know whether to believe their stances or not because IMO Rudd's 'turnaround' may have been to gain votes, perhaps Gillard was against it so as to not get party members offside. I find major party politicians particularly hard to read when it comes to being genuine or not rocking the boat.

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    Oh, and just on this I can understand people would be 'against' another person's lifestyle, marriage, possessions, whatever, but I don't think it's a politicians place to actively prevent somebody from living the life *they* want because of their own personal beliefs. They are just that - personal. And in a country that supposedly has secular laws this one just doesn't add up, especially when many politicians and individuals (even in here) have hidden behind religion/bible as a reason to not allow gay people from marrying according to the law.
    Last edited by Benji; 14-09-2013 at 16:01. Reason: Spelling, grammar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elijahs Mum View Post
    The time between Adam and Eve - estimated at 3760 BCE and when G-d made the covenant with Abraham which in theory is the beginning of religion in 1743 BCE there is approx 2000 years of humans getting married without organised religion and that's if you follow the bible
    but still if you go down that line and say Adam and Eve were the start that means marriage was still something bought about by God and has its origins with God and was therefore a divine institution. thats if you follow the bible


    Dave The Turning Cowboy

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  5. #404
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    and all that the Lorax left here in this mess was a small pile of rocks with the one word...UNLESS
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTTC View Post
    but still if you go down that line and say Adam and Eve were the start that means marriage was still something bought about by God and has its origins with God and was therefore a divine institution. thats if you follow the bible


    Dave The Turning Cowboy

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    That's what I was trying to say

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTTC View Post
    but still if you go down that line and say Adam and Eve were the start that means marriage was still something bought about by God and has its origins with God and was therefore a divine institution. thats if you follow the bible


    Dave The Turning Cowboy

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    Surely though this is a moot point given Australia is a secular nation. As Pegasus(?) keeps asking, why is religion even playing a part in this debate. Our politicians are unable to separate religion from politics which is disconcerting. Even then, only about 60% of Australians identify as Christian and I doubt they all shun same sex marriage given approximately 65% of Australians support it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTTC View Post
    but still if you go down that line and say Adam and Eve were the start that means marriage was still something bought about by God and has its origins with God and was therefore a divine institution. thats if you follow the bible


    Dave The Turning Cowboy

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    and Lilith was fashioned from the same earth as Adam.
    But she would not become subservient to Adam, and would not return to the Garden of Eden.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTTC View Post
    Christian actually means christ like or to act like christ. I dont see Christ as one who disbelieved any of the bible.

    Dave The Turning Cowboy

    turning wood into art
    So you believe in every part of the Bible? You said above you believe God creating the world didn't actually happen in 6 days so you are interpreting certain parts of the Bible in certain ways as well.

    I grew up learning that being a Christian and being 'Christ like' meant being accepting and not judgmental of others. Was that not the epitome of Christ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    See that's where it gets hazy. Different churches sprung up along the way, but from my understanding, marriage is based in religion.

    I've seen debated here that it is not based in religion, and if its not, then as far as I can tell this is a moot subject, as the main reason people argue against it seems to be religion.
    I completely agree that the religious argument shouldn't come into play when deciding about marriage equality. Many people are married every day in celebrations completely devoid of religion, if marriage was only a religious institution then why do we allow marriages to happen outside the church? I agree that churches shouldn't be forced to perform same-sex marriages but if a couple wants to be married legally by a celebrant (or a church that is accepting) then why should the government stand in the way?

    My understanding is that a civil union still does not automatically entitle you to the same rights a marriage does, somebody posted a video earlier that is a great example of this. If I am wrong please correct me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirst33 View Post
    So you believe in every part of the Bible? You said above you believe God creating the world didn't actually happen in 6 days so you are interpreting certain parts of the Bible in certain ways as well.

    I grew up learning that being a Christian and being 'Christ like' meant being accepting and not judgmental of others. Was that not the epitome of Christ?
    6 "days" doesnt necessarily mean 6 x 24 hour days.

    The term "Day" can represent an unknown period of time.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Moxy View Post
    How dismissive. Nice way to undermine what marriage means to same sex couples (and heterosexual couples for that matter).

    For the record, not everyone changes their name when they get married.
    Yes, I only married my DH (who I was already in a de facto relationship with) because I wanted a reason to change my name...

    I am also fairly certain when we were de facto there were some rights I didn't have as compared to now.

    An example, he had given power of attorney to his parents years ago when he went traveling, as a married couple that power of attorney is now null and void and I am automatically given power of attorney but as de facto it would not have been.


 

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