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  1. #351
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    So Dave, in this thread, you've gone from not practicing religion:


    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTTC View Post
    I don't want to start a fight - for me it is a case of what seems natural. Yes there is likely influence from a religious child hood which I no longer practice.
    To an ex minister engaged in evolution denial based on creationism which most major churches don't endorse, so it's considered a pretty extreme religious view.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTTC View Post
    1) Yes I believe in creation and do not believe in evolution. I do not believe in 6 24 hr days for creation but that each day is a an undefined period of time.
    I'm finding it really hard to see your position as anything other than homophobia being hastily hidden behind selective religion. Especially since you mentioned male to male relationships seemingly being more difficult for you to deal with than female to female - gay is gay in the eyes of god, surely. I would love for people like you to open their minds just a little bit. After all, Jesus himself has not been recorded as having said anything at all against homosexuality- surely he'd had mentioned it if it was important to him? And my understanding is you're supposed to disregard the Old Testament, which actually does not contain the word homosexual either. If you do some reading there is some debate among biblical scholars as to what those choice bits of Leviticus are actually referring to, many agree its to do with prostitution, not homosexuality.
    Last edited by Atropos; 14-09-2013 at 09:30.

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  3. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTTC View Post

    Christian actually means christ like or to act like christ. I dont see Christ as one who disbelieved any of the bible.


    Dave The Turning Cowboy

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    Didn't Jesus say something along the lines of loving your neighbour as yourself, doing unto others as you would yourself etc etc? Or was it do unto others, except in the case of same sex marriage and equality of civil rights?

    I can understand why people don't agree with marriage in a church. I cannot understand why people are against marriage as a civil, legal ceremony, particularly given it is not a religious institution. Under Australian law religion has nothing to do with marriage.

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  5. #353
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    Something I'd like clarified is why religion comes into this debate so much. I was brought up believing marriage was a religious institution.

    I was told on bubhub its not, it was around before religion (which doesn't make sense as because as a Christian, I believe religion has been around since the beginning -Adam and eve if you will).

    I went to find out more and the best I can do is to find marriage has been around since ~1300bc. Which still doesn't prove marriage was originally a religious institution.

    So for all of those people who don't believe marriage is from a religion, why is there any argument against Christians? If marriage was around before religions why isn't this argument being put forward to say religion has no place in determining who can and who cant get married?

  6. #354
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    Ah moxy, you were replying as I was. So if marriage is not a religious institution, what is the purpose of all this? It should just be passed, the end.

    Why the distinction between civil unions and marriage? Because as I understand it, people of the same sex can have a civil union, just not be married under Australian law. As far as I understand there is no legal difference, just a social one.

    Can someone clarify?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    Something I'd like clarified is why religion comes into this debate so much. I was brought up believing marriage was a religious institution.

    I was told on bubhub its not, it was around before religion (which doesn't make sense as because as a Christian, I believe religion has been around since the beginning -Adam and eve if you will).

    I went to find out more and the best I can do is to find marriage has been around since ~1300bc. Which still doesn't prove marriage was originally a religious institution.

    So for all of those people who don't believe marriage is from a religion, why is there any argument against Christians? If marriage was around before religions why isn't this argument being put forward to say religion has no place in determining who can and who cant get married?
    I think what people mean is that it was around before organised religion? Like denominations etc came in alot later in the picture. Could be wrong but that is what I always thought???


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  9. #356
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    See that's where it gets hazy. Different churches sprung up along the way, but from my understanding, marriage is based in religion.

    I've seen debated here that it is not based in religion, and if its not, then as far as I can tell this is a moot subject, as the main reason people argue against it seems to be religion.

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    It certainly gets hazy! I guess my question is at the end of the day what is 'religion'? Was is based is religion per say, or just the predominant societal thinking back then? That has never really been let go of? Lots of people say it is biblical, but like pp's have said, alot of biblical things are no longer practised because times have changed? So it always interests me that 'times change' for some things, but not others. It is such a hard one, I like to seperate it out and just look at it from an equality/ human rights issue. There are alot of 'non religious' heterosexual marriages these days, and certainly even more 'non christian' marriages (i.e. other religions) so I just think it can be a different type of marriage


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    People need to educate themselves more on their own religion. Not just in this thread but all the creationists out there.
    One documentary that shows polytheism changing to monotheism through the ages is called, " east to west" - highly recommend it.
    Read up about Lilith too, she was Adams' 'other option'...





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    I love Lilith! She basically said "Fuxk you" to being Adams slave-like woman.

    Then she got demonised and is theorised to have been the origins of Succubi(?) I dunno what the plural of succubus would be.

    That was off track a bit there. *Ahem* sorry. Carry on.

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    Default Same Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    Ah moxy, you were replying as I was. So if marriage is not a religious institution, what is the purpose of all this? It should just be passed, the end.

    Why the distinction between civil unions and marriage? Because as I understand it, people of the same sex can have a civil union, just not be married under Australian law. As far as I understand there is no legal difference, just a social one.

    Can someone clarify?
    Exactly. It should just be passed. But politicians let their religion cloud their judgement, as much as they say they don't. If marriage was a religious institution and not a civil one, then all weddings performed outside a church wouldn't be legal. But obviously they are. Plus, you then have the issue of determining whose religion is "right" because surely if it's Christianity or any of its offshoots, then any Jewish or Muslim marriages would be null and void.

    I'm fairly certain that under Australian law, de facto couples whether gay or straight have the same rights as married couples so yes, marriage becomes redundant in terms of offering a balance of entitlements. But for some people, getting married is a hugely important event, the fact that it does nothing more than legally bind you to another and provide a social differentiation from unmarried people is neither here nor there. The fact is, we as a nation continue to discriminate against people because of their sexuality and don't allow them to have their relationship recognised as that of a married couple. It may not seem like such a big deal so if that's the case, lets ban marriage between heterosexual people and allow gay couples to marry and see what the uproar is.

    That we have laws in place to protect people from discrimination based on their sexuality yet the government keeps discriminating against people because of their sexuality, is laughable, abhorrent and disgusting.

    ETA: there's no "marriage" vs "civil ceremony" in Australia. It's marriage, broken down into either civil or religious ceremonies. Ministers of religion as well as civil celebrants have the authority to legally marry a couple. It's still called marriage under the Marriage Act regardless of where it's performed and who oversees it
    http://www.ag.gov.au/familiesandmarr...australia.aspx
    Last edited by Moxy; 14-09-2013 at 11:35.

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