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  1. #321
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    No not entirely wrong

    Also the thought that people burn in hell is not founded in the bible and many translations have been corrupted to promote the view of the church

    The church loved to 'scare' obedience into people. we really should start another thread on this though it does not particularly pertain to the 4 basic questions that were asked

    The bible basically says when you're dead you're dead. no hell as in hell fire, you just cease to exist. It did refer to a resurrection in the future


    Dave The Turning Cowboy

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  2. #322
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    Busy-Bee is offline Offending people since before Del :D
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    Dave - we might disagree on this topic but I don't doubt for a moment that you are a very nice, genuine bloke.

    However, I do need to ask how you reconcile:

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTTC View Post
    I agree with all comments about church and state being separate. A minister of religion IMO and based on the bible has no place being involved in politics or its laws etc.
    with

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTTC View Post
    For a Christian (or non practicing Christian who still believes) it would be a sin IMHO to vote for something that runs counter to the bible. A christian does not therefore have to vote against it - they can simply refrain.
    In the second statement you are using the bible to base what you believe should be social policy. The two statements contradict.

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    Dave - thanks for discussing further. I know it isn't always easy to have so many disagree with you.

    I'm going to ask you a question - one I have posed several times in these debates where people cite religion/the bible bc homosexuality is unnatural, and no one ever replies to me....

    Considering in the last 20 years extensive research has been done on gay and hetro brains, which has found in short, that homosexuality isn't a choice, they are born gay.....

    Why does God keep making gay people if he loathes them so much and being gay is a sin?

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to delirium For This Useful Post:

    Boobycino  (12-09-2013),ChickyBee  (12-09-2013),Gandalf  (14-09-2013)

  5. #324
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    Have I been sucked in again???

    Quote Originally Posted by SassyMummy View Post
    I feel it's more than fair for people to try and force a change of view from people who are against something that isn't harmful in any way.
    well bring back the crusades and force people to accept christianity (I say that tongue in cheek, the crusades were one of the most unchristian things carried out by so called Christianity)

    Why should my view be changed - you are saying I should not believe in god or the bible and that I should be forced to give up any such belief.

    Please explain how that is fair?

    Quote Originally Posted by SassyMummy View Post
    If people DIDN'T try to force change, then women would still be raped LEGALLY by their husbands, and anyone who wasn't white would be treated as if they were vermin.

    Good on anyone, IMO, who tries to eradicate prejudice.
    I really dont see what the second part of your statement has to do with the issue. Christians do try to eradicate prejudice where it matters most ... in the heart.

    forcing 'Change' and forcing a change of view are 2 different things.

    SSM will most likely come in in Australia. There will be change. I accept that without supporting it.

    My view does not need to be changed


    Dave The Turning Cowboy

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  6. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Dave - thanks for discussing further. I know it isn't always easy to have so many disagree with you.

    I'm going to ask you a question - one I have posed several times in these debates where people cite religion/the bible bc homosexuality is unnatural, and no one ever replies to me....

    Considering in the last 20 years extensive research has been done on gay and hetro brains, which has found in short, that homosexuality isn't a choice, they are born gay.....

    Why does God keep making gay people if he loathes them so much and being gay is a sin?
    I will PM you as I do not want to derail the thread or start another fire


    Dave The Turning Cowboy

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  7. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTTC View Post
    No not entirely wrong

    Also the thought that people burn in hell is not founded in the bible and many translations have been corrupted to promote the view of the church

    The church loved to 'scare' obedience into people. we really should start another thread on this though it does not particularly pertain to the 4 basic questions that were asked

    The bible basically says when you're dead you're dead. no hell as in hell fire, you just cease to exist. It did refer to a resurrection in the future


    Dave The Turning Cowboy

    turning wood into art
    Oh I agree that there is no 'burny hell' -- and I guess it depends which bible in particular you read and what translation you follow.
    I understand the world 'hell' comes from the Hebrew word - 'sheol' or shoal. And that apparently everyone goes there, to rest, waiting to be resurrected and taken to the kingdom of god etc etc.

    Feel free to do a spin off



    I think the 'burn with passion' in the above quote though is talking about 'desire' isn't it? - that there is a sexual desire - and if you cannot control it, then best you married.
    Because touching or even thinking about touching a woman in 'that way' was considered a sin.
    Last edited by FiveInTheBed; 12-09-2013 at 20:08.

  8. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTTC View Post
    Why should my view be changed - you are saying I should not believe in god or the bible and that I should be forced to give up any such belief.

    Please explain how that is fair?
    Not agreeing with same sex marriage in itself is your opinion. But when you against it's introduction as law you are infringing on, and trying to take people's rights away.

    I'm atheist. What if I said my belief is that religion is hogwash therefore I want all churches ripped down and you can't practice your religion bc I don't agree with it?

    Do you see my point?

  9. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Busy-Bee View Post
    Dave - we might disagree on this topic but I don't doubt for a moment that you are a very nice, genuine bloke.

    However, I do need to ask how you reconcile:



    with



    In the second statement you are using the bible to base what you believe should be social policy. The two statements contradict.
    No I am not saying what I think should be social policy. In reality Jesus taught his disciples to remain neutral from government. It is not IMO a christians place to get involved so therefore the christian view would have no impact on policy.

    My view if adopted by all professing belief in the bible would lead to the end outcome you desire. There would be no input based on bible or Christian beliefs (The area I presume of most resistance to the change you want) therefore you would get the change.

    I hope I explained that to your satisfaction, I tried anyway


    Dave The Turning Cowboy

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  10. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Not agreeing with same sex marriage in itself is your opinion. But when you against it's introduction as law you are infringing on, and trying to take people's rights away.

    I'm atheist. What if I said my belief is that religion is hogwash therefore I want all churches ripped down and you can't practice your religion bc I don't agree with it?

    Do you see my point?
    That has happened ... it was communism.

    If I refrain from voting how am I infringing on your rights


    Dave The Turning Cowboy

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  11. #330
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    If it is wrong according to the bible, then why do some churches and religious leaders support and accept marriage equality?

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