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  1. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    I doesn't necessarily mean having children, but would legitimise same sex parent families.
    I know you're playing devil's advocate, but I'll argue anyway :-)
    As RR posted, studies so far suggest that children of same sex parents are doing just fine. Secondly, much like heterosexual couples, having children doesn't legitimise anything. That's as offensive as comparing same sex couples and their relationships to mere friendships and there's nothing legit about a same sex relationship.

    TBH, I'm fairly close minded when it comes to understanding bigots. I just can't bring myself to do it, especially when the religion card is played. Is perhaps somewhat ironic but it's how I am.

  2. #292
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    This is why I dislike the nuclear family being considered normal and everything else 'unnatural'. There is nothing inherently 'normal' or 'natural' about marriage itself, it's something we choose to do in a culture that often shames otherwise, but is improving slowly. I think attitudes that encourage the 'nuclear is normal' is far more damaging than single parenthood or homosexuals raising children together because it's actually this attitude that makes children of nuclear families 'normal' and children from single parent homes or same sex parent homes 'other'.

  3. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    I'm playing devil's advocate here. Please let me know if I offend anyone and I'll stop.
    I had a quick look at that study rainbow road referred to. Social science studies are notoriously difficult to do objectively because you can't get a unbiased random sample of the population - i.e. you can't force people to participate in the study if they don't want to. So this study relied on people coming forward of their own volition and volunteering to be part of the research. It is not surprising that people volunteering for a study on child health well being will have healthy and well adjusted children. Parents of socially maladjusted children are unlikely to come forward for this type of scrutiny.
    Surely the other groups participating in the comparison were also doing so of their own volition and saw their children as being well adjusted, but they still didn't score as well as the children of same sex couples.

  4. #294
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    Meg I don't find you upsetting, and I think the responses are pretty much proof that this discussion has been pretty polite and well argued.

  5. #295
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    Further to the argument of same sex attraction not being natural, what is natural is totally subjective. It's not natural to me (and I've dappled just to make sure). But then neither is throwing myself off a cliff with ropes tied around my ankles, eating grasshoppers or flying in a plane. Bit people do these things with zero impact on me and I couldn't care less that they do. More power to them.

    As for the "tradition" or historical arguments, historically women didn't have the right to vote. Traditionally men didn't stay home to raise children.

    Thank god for progression.

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  7. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    This is why I dislike the nuclear family being considered normal and everything else 'unnatural'. There is nothing inherently 'normal' or 'natural' about marriage itself, it's something we choose to do in a culture that often shames otherwise, but is improving slowly. I think attitudes that encourage the 'nuclear is normal' is far more damaging than single parenthood or homosexuals raising children together because it's actually this attitude that makes children of nuclear families 'normal' and children from single parent homes or same sex parent homes 'other'.
    This is pretty much the same as my opinion, I think we need to get away from the expectation that families will be mum, dad, 2.5 kids and fido. Funnily enough, this came up in another thread as a reason to not support gay marriage (put forward by gay people). Legalising gay marriage is a way of strengthening and further normalising marriage as the only way to be in a legitimate relationship. Perhaps if we *all* just boycotted marriage altogether we'd be better off!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    This is pretty much the same as my opinion, I think we need to get away from the expectation that families will be mum, dad, 2.5 kids and fido. Funnily enough, this came up in another thread as a reason to not support gay marriage (put forward by gay people). Legalising gay marriage is a way of strengthening and further normalising marriage as the only way to be in a legitimate relationship. Perhaps if we *all* just boycotted marriage altogether we'd be better off!
    I agree with this wholeheartedly and do see it as a case against marriage, as opposed to a case against certain groups being granted the opportunity to marry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    Surely the other groups participating in the comparison were also doing so of their own volition and saw their children as being well adjusted, but they still didn't score as well as the children of same sex couples.
    That's a good point. But from what I can see they were only measuring gay families in this study and then comparing their results with norms that had been measured through previous studies (might be wrong there, couldn't find the full methodology). If this is the case then using different methodologies to study the two samples is not really very good science.

    Anyway, i feel i'm clutching at straws now. Think I'll take off my devils hat.
    Last edited by Meg2; 12-09-2013 at 11:58. Reason: spelling

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    I grew up in a Christian home, I even went to bible college for three years as an adult. These days, I don't attend church, but I do have a strong belief system which I am reluctant to put a label on because I like to think that it is comprised of a number of different religious philosophies. It saddens me to read people attacking th bible as being irrelevant, because I do believe that it has relevance for life today, as do a number of other religious/spiritual books. They all however have to be interpreted with sensitivity and awareness of the time/culture in which they were written. I also completely understand people attacking the bible, because the church has often made a massive ***** up of interpreting the bible, and has shown a lot of hatred in their efforts to impose these interpretations on everyone else.

    my view is this. If YOU believe that it is 'against your religion' to engage in homosexual behaviours, then YOU should do everything you can to not engage in those behaviours yourself. I believe that you would do well to allow others to decide for themselves what is ok for them, and support them in their own spiritual journey. I do not agree with laws which stop consenting adults from marrying whomever they choose.

    i believe that god supports healthy relationships, I do not believe that he/she makes a distinction when it comes to the gender of those within those relationships. I would even go so far as to say that I think most of us are capable of having a healthy relationship with someone of either gender as I see it more of a spiritual meeting than a physical one...but that's probably a debate for another day.

    so, at the end of the day, yes, I support same sex marriage equality. I fail to see how it could be a threat to my marriage. I hope that as my children grow up, our society becomes more accepting, and that this sort of debate about it is well on its way to being a distant memory...

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  14. #300
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    Marriage is marriage - I find it offensive that any state or federal legislation would specifically discriminate against people/persons due to their sexual orientation or gender.

    We have made a point legislate Equality in relation to employment and the provision of services etc. and I really don't understand why our society is opposed to providing equal rights to all citizens...


 

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