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  1. #41
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    The lions cage analogy is utterly ridiculous. A man isn't a wild animal hunting on instinct without self insight or control nor is the local park his domain so no it's absolutely nothing like stepping into a lions cage!
    How on earth did it become a woman's responsibility to prevent herself from getting raped?!?
    It's a completely false sense of security to be a 'good girl', 'dress appropriately' and avoid 'bad places'. The number one thing that puts me at risk of sexual assault is having a vagina, the rest are completely random variables.
    Sigh.

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  3. #42
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    But she's an adult. Everyone is a stranger before you get to know them... and to do that, you have to talk to them.

    I think, "to be safe, you should avoid..." is bad advice for women tbh. Women shouldn't have to NOT do anything to avoid rape. Rapists should just not rape.
    And the world is just a happy utopia where everyone does as they should. Oh please. Come on. This is not Pollyanna World.

    You speak of rights when the focus should be obligations you have to yourself to keep yourself safe (known as protective behaviours). Most kids learn these skills in a social context but some do not. As is evident in this thread. By all means, enjoy your surroundings but adopting survival tactics in the form of risk assessment and commonsense is not a violation of anyone's rights but responsible behaviour.

    This isn't a women's rights issue. Men get raped too, did you know that? And bashed and followed. And they adopt the same practices - by avoiding unlit areas, travelling in groups and letting people know where they are. And they don't apologise for that. So why should women? As a woman you would NEVER find me in an unlit park at night on my own unless I had just had a lobotomy. Do I feel my rights are being violated? No. I'm just refusing to be bloody stupid. It's all very well to cite where the fault lies in the attacker but I get tired when that same fault is not applied to the victim in circumstances when they put themselves in harm's way. And a fat lot of good it all does when you end up dead. You are never going to get a safe passage in life. Judgement calls and acting accordingly are one of life's necessities. To demand a situation where you don't have to think about that is naiive and very dangerous.

    OP is clearly concerned about what she sees as risky behaviour and I really don't blame her. I certainly don't feel the need to admonish her over it but to commend her for being so concerned. I would appreciate a friend like that.

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  5. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by anewme View Post
    My DD has to walk through doggy area late a night most nights to get to her tram to get home from work. She often will ring me at all times of the night if she feels unsafe. If something happen to her it wouldn't be her fault for not taking precautions it would be the attackers fault.
    I understand this, I have walked places 'dodgy' before and honestly I HAVE felt unsafe so ill usually call someone too.

    I can understand everyone's points of view here but I think we probably have our own levels of fear etc. Of course SAgirl growing up in South Africa is going to make her more wary of what could happen but I don't think she needs to be ridiculed. She never said being raped is the victims own fault, she is obviously just more wary about strangers that some of you.

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  7. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy wanderer View Post
    And the world is just a happy utopia where everyone does as they should. Oh please. Come on. This is not Pollyanna World.

    You speak of rights when the focus should be obligations you have to yourself to keep yourself safe (known as protective behaviours). Most kids learn these skills in a social context but some do not. As is evident in this thread. By all means, enjoy your surroundings but adopting survival tactics in the form of risk assessment and commonsense is not a violation of anyone's rights but responsible behaviour.

    This isn't a women's rights issue. Men get raped too, did you know that? And bashed and followed. And they adopt the same practices - by avoiding unlit areas, travelling in groups and letting people know where they are. And they don't apologise for that. So why should women? As a woman you would NEVER find me in an unlit park at night on my own unless I had just had a lobotomy. Do I feel my rights are being violated? No. I'm just refusing to be bloody stupid. It's all very well to cite where the fault lies in the attacker but I get tired when that same fault is not applied to the victim in circumstances when they put themselves in harm's way. And a fat lot of good it all does when you end up dead. You are never going to get a safe passage in life. Judgement calls and acting accordingly are one of life's necessities. To demand a situation where you don't have to think about that is naiive and very dangerous.

    OP is clearly concerned about what she sees as risky behaviour and I really don't blame her. I certainly don't feel the need to admonish her over it but to commend her for being so concerned. I would appreciate a friend like that.
    Isn't that a bit like saying bullying victims should do their bit not to put themselves in the path of bullies or to attract the attention of the bullies?

    Just as an example.

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  9. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by NancyBlackett View Post
    Isn't that a bit like saying bullying victims should do their bit not to put themselves in the path of bullies or to attract the attention of the bullies?

    Just as an example.
    I understand what happy wanderer is saying, what I don't understand is how a lot of the PPs seem to think we live in this wonderful happy world where just because you are a woman and you shouldn't get raped or sexually assaulted, you won't.

    Seriously? Yes women have rights to do as they please, as do men, but there are certain people who CHOOSE to rape or assault and if you are in a dodgy area (or often even in a safe area) and there is a Rapist wanting to rape you, they will! What's so wrong about avoiding these situations IF YOU CAN?

    U don't have some force field around you protecting you! Protect yourself!

    Why do you think animals have the instinct of safety in numbers? And just instinct in general? Your women's rights aren't goin to protect you! Yes they may put the rapist in jail etc but that's not going to help when you are in the situation.

    There is nothing wrong with avoiding dodgy situations and from what the OP has said, even the cops have said to avoid that particular park. Talk about tempting fate!!

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  11. #46
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    Ps what do you think about women's self defense classes the? Do you think they teach these classes because 'women are asking for it' or 'its the women's fault'

    NO, they teach them so that you can protect yourself if something happens, exactly like teaching someone to avoid a known dodgy area if possible.

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  13. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAgirl View Post
    I understand what happy wanderer is saying, what I don't understand is how a lot of the PPs seem to think we live in this wonderful happy world where just because you are a woman and you shouldn't get raped or sexually assaulted, you won't.

    Seriously? Yes women have rights to do as they please, as do men, but there are certain people who CHOOSE to rape or assault and if you are in a dodgy area (or often even in a safe area) and there is a Rapist wanting to rape you, they will! What's so wrong about avoiding these situations IF YOU CAN?

    U don't have some force field around you protecting you! Protect yourself!

    Why do you think animals have the instinct of safety in numbers? And just instinct in general? Your women's rights aren't goin to protect you! Yes they may put the rapist in jail etc but that's not going to help when you are in the situation.

    There is nothing wrong with avoiding dodgy situations and from what the OP has said, even the cops have said to avoid that particular park. Talk about tempting fate!!
    I don't think anyone here is suggesting that there is anything wrong with avoiding dodgy areas.

    Simply that the notion that unless women avoid dodgy areas/late nights/ tight clothes they are somehow complicit in their own rape is ridiculous.

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  15. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by NancyBlackett View Post
    I don't think anyone here is suggesting that there is anything wrong with avoiding dodgy areas.

    Simply that the notion that unless women avoid dodgy areas/late nights/ tight clothes they are somehow complicit in their own rape is ridiculous.
    Exactly.

  16. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by NancyBlackett View Post
    I don't think anyone here is suggesting that there is anything wrong with avoiding dodgy areas.

    Simply that the notion that unless women avoid dodgy areas/late nights/ tight clothes they are somehow complicit in their own rape is ridiculous.
    I don't think anyone was / is implying this AT ALL. I certainly wasn't.

  17. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy wanderer View Post
    It's all very well to cite where the fault lies in the attacker but I get tired when that same fault is not applied to the victim in circumstances when they put themselves in harm's way.
    Pretty sure that is exactly what happy wanderer was implying.


 

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