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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arli View Post
    Yep great idea, pass over to our under resourced and under caring government child protection workers more to do and take resources away from those kids in abusive homes. Such a logical concept because there is no other way to monitor and enforce. Yay for putting more kids into unsupported foster homes, because this will be the outcome people, if you really think it through. Our system cannot cope with the kids in need now, how an earth will it cope with kids that get a smack on the bum??? If your all for it being illegal how the hell will it be enforced?
    Did you mean to quote risfaerie's post? I don't think she suggested anything like what you have responded to?

    In regards to the OP- should it be illegal? I think it probably should. But I have no idea how it could be policed. I would imagine it is something that would possibly be used against parents in Family Law Courts? It would be inappropriate to place young kids on the stand in courts to testify against their parents and a tap on the bottom is hardly likely to leave marks that could potentially be photographed for evidence- I would imagine leaving marks and bruises would already come under assault? Its a tricky one, legislation wise. And how many clever kids/teens would be calling the police claiming to have been smacked out of spite? There are so many issues around this, I really don't know if it's possible to put into practice. I was smacked every now and then as a kid and it didn't have any lasting effect on me, but yelling certainly did. When I was younger my dad would shout at me a lot. Even if I had friends over. It was mortifying and I hated it, and I feel it was usually unnecessary.

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  3. #122
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    If we smack an adult, we can get charged with assault. Why then are we permitted to smack children. Should it be illegal? You betcha.

  4. #123
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    I understand why people have concerns about how the change might work in practice. It seems that in New Zealand very similar concerns were raised when they removed their parental discipline defence six years ago. It seems many of the fears of "good " parents being prosecuted for minor infractions were unfounded and only a handful or so of people have been prosecuted for smacking. The law instead has been used as an educative tool and also a useful method for early intervention where there are serious child safety concerns.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-2...ealand/4847270

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  6. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arli View Post
    That is not true, any child that is traumatised by their parents was abused, which is afar cry from smacking.

    How can you say smacking causes more trauma than getting yelled it, having their civil rights violated through play pens or time out, or the trauma of seeing your parents fight. I could say I would now be a little less Anxious if my parents did not deprive me of the barbie I wanted. Your clutching at straws there is no way smacking not abuse is any more detrimental than other forms of discipline.
    That's pretty funny you know, as I would argue yelling, time out and fighting do hurt kids, absolutely. You can say you disagree but can hardly say "that isn't true".
    Last edited by twotrunks; 27-07-2013 at 21:07.

  7. #125
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    We were just discussing this over dinner and my 8 year old niece was shocked when dad was telling her how he used to get the cane at school for being naughty - 6 whips on each hand - can you imagine if they still did that today at school? Or would those who condone smacking /corporal punishment still prefer it in schools??

  8. #126
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    I wonder how many adults and teachers thought making it illegal to full on beat your kids would be a bad thing and the government stepping in on their parenting and telling them how to do it??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elijahs Mum View Post
    We were just discussing this over dinner and my 8 year old niece was shocked when dad was telling her how he used to get the cane at school for being naughty - 6 whips on each hand - can you imagine if they still did that today at school? Or would those who condone smacking /corporal punishment still prefer it in schools??
    I remember at the tail end of my high school years a note being sent home to parents saying that they were considering reintroducing the cane in my school. Parents were requested to sign and send the form back if they did NOT want their child to get the cane as a firm of punishment. My mother through the form in the bin, saying if I got the cane I must have deserved it.
    Now introducing corporal punishment back into schools I'm not sure I agree with. That comes down to whether I trusted my children's teachers to use it appropriately.
    However I myself have and do use smacking as a firm of punishment for the big things. As a four instance, my eldest daughter running off into traffic when she was two years old, when I was fresh out of hospital after having her sister, and was pushing said newborn sister in a pram. I managed to gran her back out of the way of a 4wd just before it hit her, after shoving the pram with the baby in it into a wall, and have her a swift smack on her nappy covered bottom.
    A few minutes later, I'm putting the girls both in the car, I look around and find a woman who had watched the whole thing without once attempting to help taking my license plate number so she could 'report me for child abuse'.
    Two things I remember clearly as a result of that incident. 1, I never heard from docs, the police or anyone else about my 'abuse'. And 2, my daughter never once ran into the road again. The shock of the smack followed by the lecture that she got about road safety sunk in.

    Is she emotionally scarred as a result of the smack? I couldn't tell you. What I do know is that if she is and if that emotional scarring prevents her from being physically injured later in life, then I can live with the fact that I've given her that scar. Both my children and I have a very open and honest relationship. They know the boundaries, they know that they can come to me no matter what. Smacking did not play a larger role in their discipline. But it played a key role. It was there for shock value when a lesson had to be learnt fast for the sake of there health and welfare.

    There are situations where just giving a time out doesn't highlight how urgent or important a rule is, especially to a young child.

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  11. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennaisme View Post
    I wonder how many adults and teachers thought making it illegal to full on beat your kids would be a bad thing and the government stepping in on their parenting and telling them how to do it??

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    Oh come on really? That has to be one of the more bizarre statements I've read on this forum.

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  13. #129
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    Smacking and getting the cane are completely different. I am not talking about belting, or abuse. I mean a tap on the bum.

    I personally don't like smacking, but I don't think less of people who do smack, not like belting, like actually smacking.

    Interestingly enough though - I do think we are going into territory that is bordering ridiculous - like not being able to say "no" to kids at childcare. Seriously wtf.

    There is an early intervention educator where we are, my DS goes to the service she is at. They have a policy of not saying "no" or raising voice or anything to the kids even when they are doing the wrong thing. Even if they hurt someone etc. Is it a coincidence that her boy is one of the biggest bullies at our school? I don't know. But I do think we are going way too far the other way, and maybe that is the consequence?

    And interesting how no one has commented on if vaccinations were forced. Would that be ok? I personally think not vaccinating is bordering on child abuse. If a government can make laws against smacking for the good of children, why can't the make laws on vaccination, for the good of the children and everyone else?

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  15. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by chickpea View Post
    Genuine question, if parents do not like smacking then why do it when there are other options available?
    I've smacked, you know that. I hate doing it and regret it immediately. I do it out of frustration and anger, never as a considered action. I don't even think before I do it, it happens, then I think. Not excusable, but that's what happens here. Am I trying to make more of an effort to think first? Yes. Absolutely. But it's not just a matter of saying I don't like it therefore I will stop doing it. I have to try really hard to make sure it's not my first reaction when I get to that point of anger and frustration. I have a horrid temper and remember my dad blowing up on many occasions as a child when I did something wrong. Sometimes I was smacked, sometimes I was yelled at. I guess I'm an example of where the apple hasn't fallen far from the tree. Though I am trying to roll away ;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by ebki View Post
    Not sure, it should be treated the same way as if you hit another adult. I don't hit my kids, but would tap on the hand when they were little if touching something that could be dangerous and they didn't listen. I was physically and emotionally abused, I was a really well behaved child - because I was scared of my parents, I had no confidence growing up and never felt I could go to them. Yuk I would hate my kids to feel the way I felt growing up
    While I can't say I was physically and emotionally abused, I was smacked and raised in a more authoritarian household than authoritative. I was "good" because I feared getting into trouble from my parents. I also had and still have zero confidence and was scared of my parents and like you, am trying hard to not raise my kids like that.

    ETA: in answer to the OP, I don't know where I stand on this issue. Off the cuff I think yes, it should be treated the same as hitting adults. However, as someone who has smacked though and is trying to make sure it never happens again, I feel enough horror and disgust at myself for the handful of times I've smacked. Having that added burden of knowing it was illegal would only make me feel worse, not necessarily be the deterrent to stop because as I noted above, I haven't ever stopped, thought about a punishment, then smacked. It's always been an almost automatic reaction, so the "hang on, this is illegal" part would come into play after, not before the fact. I have never left a mark on my son after a smack and have taught him that hitting is never ok and he has told me off after I've done it (and rightly so). I think for most parents who smack they are what society would deem a "good parent" and perhaps we need more support on how to manage our reaction and behaviour. Keep in mind, we are really the first generation of parents who are shifting from smacking as being accepted by most and practised by many, to being a generation who say its not ok, and starting to break the cycle. For some of us, not repeating the bad habits of our own parents is quite difficult.
    Last edited by Moxy; 28-07-2013 at 11:04.

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