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  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by DailyDiversion View Post
    I just wanted to clarify something. If smacking were to become illegal it wouldn't be a matter of creating a new offence and it would be no more complicated or difficult to enforce than the current assault laws which apply to protect everyone else in our community.

    What it would mean is removing a current defence available to those that assault children. In Qld this is called the defence of domestic discipline and it is available as a defence to parents, guardians and teachers allowing them to use reasonable force to "correct" or "discipline" children. An assault will only become an offence when it is unlawful. Generally speaking this means the application of force or the threatened application of force without consent. Other defences such as provocation and self defence/defence of another would still be available.

    I consider that as a society we are moving away from the idea that children are chattels and toward the notion that they are entitled to the same protection against unlawful assault as everyone else in the community.

    Perhaps the question shouldn't be framed as whether smacking should be illegal but why parents, guardians and teachers should be entitled to special protection under the law for actions that would otherwise be an unlawful assault.
    Just quickly - 'no more complicated'? Really? Should we expect children to stand up in a court of law and give evidence against a parent? Is it ok to expect minors to be put in a situation where they are giving evidence at all?

    Has charging perpetrators of violence against women (violence in general) decreased the incidence of DV/violence?

    I still think there are better approaches to consider.

  2. #112
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    It is definitely food for thought - GirlX said it too. I am a strong supporter of Vaccinations. I think everyone should be vaxxed unless you can't for medical reasons. What happens if they are made mandatory? It is for health reasons, and scientific studies prove time after time that they are safe and effective and very much needed. How would everyone feel about that?

    To be honest, I don't really care about smacking, it isn't something that riles me up at all - probably because I was smacked and don't feel traumatised by it. But this does throw up some other questions about government interference and how far it could go.

    Quote Originally Posted by kw123 View Post
    I think we live in enough of a nanny state as it is. What next?

    Forced vaccinations?
    Illegal to feed children coke and Maccas?

    So no I don't think smacking should be illegal although I in no way agree with it.

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  4. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Girl X View Post
    But, and I know I am playing devil's advocate here, what about shouting? Could that not psychologically scar children too? Does it not constitute emotional abuse
    Absolutrly. To this day I cannot be around shouters and get very stressed when I'm around people arguing.

    The few smacks mum gave us - meh, nothing. Would trade the shouting between parents for extra smacks any day.
    Last edited by Ellewood; 27-07-2013 at 17:40. Reason: Haha, smacks not snacks! Although I wouldn't say no to snacks either!

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  6. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by risfaerie View Post
    Wow, unwarranted aggression much? Where in my post did I say that we should pass over to our under resourced and under caring government child protection workers?

    Where did I suggest putting kids in foster homes? Where did I suggest that our current system could cope in it's current form? Where?

    I am so confused by your aggression and anger towards me, I don't know where to start. I would like to point out that I did say that I had a few concerns regarding making it illegal, concetns that would have to be dealt with first.

    Perhaps you could try a different tactic. Jumping down my throat with agression certainly does not make me want to change my mind.

    Sent from my GT-N8010 using The Bub Hub mobile app
    Oh dear, this poor me mentality on a board that is obviously going to create significant debate is why smacking is on the agenda in the first place. I did not attack you, my post was not aggressive I was simply stating my opinion. My advice would be if you get so upset at someone else expressing an opinion contrary to or that questions yours perhaps you should avoid debate topics all together.

    Why are some of us supporting smacking, well I don't smack my kids, but I am opposed the government having any more legislative control over how I parent and as far as I see it there are other issues with our children that should be addressed first. I personally believe junk food and not vaccinating your kids is was more detrimental than a smack on the bum. I believe home schooling should be banned, I think smoking in the home causes way more health problems and verbal abuse at more psychological problems. So I am not saying go and smack your kids, I am saying back off government!!!

  7. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arli View Post
    Oh dear, this poor me mentality on a board that is obviously going to create significant debate is why smacking is on the agenda in the first place. I did not attack you, my post was not aggressive I was simply stating my opinion. My advice would be if you get so upset at someone else expressing an opinion contrary to or that questions yours perhaps you should avoid debate topics all together.

    Why are some of us supporting smacking, well I don't smack my kids, but I am opposed the government having any more legislative control over how I parent and as far as I see it there are other issues with our children that should be addressed first. I personally believe junk food and not vaccinating your kids is was more detrimental than a smack on the bum. I believe home schooling should be banned, I think smoking in the home causes way more health problems and verbal abuse at more psychological problems. So I am not saying go and smack your kids, I am saying back off government!!!
    OT, but why do you think homeschooling should be banned?

  8. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arli View Post
    Oh dear, this poor me mentality on a board that is obviously going to create significant debate is why smacking is on the agenda in the first place. I did not attack you, my post was not aggressive I was simply stating my opinion. My advice would be if you get so upset at someone else expressing an opinion contrary to or that questions yours perhaps you should avoid debate topics all together.
    Oh, I wasn't upset. In the scheme of my life, you equate to little more than a random faceless stranger getting mad on the Internet. Hardly something to get worked up about. As stated previously, I was confused. In fact, given that you did not address any of my point, instead ranted angrily about the under caring government agencies, I wasn't even sure if your post was even aimed at me. Briefly I wondered if you had quoted me in error. So cheers for the advice, but I'll leave it for now.

    Anyone who knows me knows that I welcome difference of opinion. Different opinions, presented in an intelligent and informed manner, have the ability to cause people to change the way they think. I have seen it many times. I have been that person on many occasions. You are welcome to your opinion. I would suggest that your wording comes off as rather aggressive, and sarcastic. Perhaps it is not your intention, I don't know.

    For the record, while I do feel smacking should not be legal, I originally and subsequently stated that I would have concerns with the enforcement of such legislation. This was in my original post. Since I work for one of the understaffed and allegedly "under caring (your words)" government organisations that would most likely be involved in enforcing this hypothetical legislation, I know first hand how understaffed and overstretched we are in many areas. My concerns are legitimate, as are yours.

    There is no poor me mentality here my life is far too enjoyable for that.

    Sent from my GT-N8010 using The Bub Hub mobile app

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  10. #117
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    Not sure, it should be treated the same way as if you hit another adult. I don't hit my kids, but would tap on the hand when they were little if touching something that could be dangerous and they didn't listen. I was physically and emotionally abused, I was a really well behaved child - because I was scared of my parents, I had no confidence growing up and never felt I could go to them. Yuk I would hate my kids to feel the way I felt growing up

  11. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeetTheBluths View Post
    Just quickly - 'no more complicated'? Really? Should we expect children to stand up in a court of law and give evidence against a parent? Is it ok to expect minors to be put in a situation where they are giving evidence at all?

    Has charging perpetrators of violence against women (violence in general) decreased the incidence of DV/violence?

    I still think there are better approaches to consider.
    Children are already in this position when they are victims of abuse at the hands of their parents (or others) and they do give evidence in Court. A lot is done now to minimise the impact on them eg.allowing police interviews to form their evidence and pre-recording questioning via a remote room using CCTV. We definitely do not want to return to the time when children were not considered competent or reliable witnesses to give evidence.

    In any event, I would think the main point of removing the domestic discipline defence would be to send the strong message that corporal punishment is no longer acceptable and thus deterring the conduct. You would hope that the vast majority of folk are law abiding citizens.

    I thought that the stats from the countries where the changes had been implemented reported a decrease in child abuse cases which would actually mean less children being required to give evidence.

    I don't know what current DV stats are but surely it is less prevalent now than when society openly condoned physical "discipline" by a husband to his wife.

    I agree that other measures might also be beneficial. A change in the law will not do all that is necessary to prevent child abuse but it is a good start in my view as it sends a very clear message that it is not acceptable to use corporal punishment. Early intervention for families at risk and under pressure, including support and education for parents would also assist.

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  13. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by chickpea View Post
    Yes I agree, people can have different opinions, that goes for you too. Did I attack you? How?

    I was hit as a child and I believe that it was abusive, it was done from a place of anger and out of control behavior on my parents part. I found it scary and distressing, and I believe that if society had a law that said it was not OK it would have made a difference.

    I do not have all the answers as to how this change in legislation/removal of protection for caregivers to hit children would be implemented, nor did I ever say I did, I do however stand by my initial answer to the OP which is yes, I do believe smacking should be illegal.

    Genuine question, if parents do not like smacking then why do it when there are other options available?
    So you were smacked and believe your parents should have been charged for smacking you. But with all due respect, there are people in this thread who claim to have been smacked yet were not permanently damaged/scared by it. Do you think it's fair to say that had those people's parents been charged for smacking them, it could very well have had a detrimental effect on their relationship with their parents? Is it right and fair to put children in the position where they have to decide whether to have a parent charged for smacking them?

    I think parents smack as a last resort when children don't respond to discipline and are out of control. Contrary to opinions that there are other ways, many parents feel its very effective when everything else has failed.

    I wasn't aware there were so many adults out there so badly effected by being smacked as a child. There were far worse things in my childhood that affected my life in drastic ways and the person I am, relationships etc. than being smacked on the bum occasionally.

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  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by DailyDiversion View Post
    Children are already in this position when they are victims of abuse at the hands of their parents (or others) and they do give evidence in Court. A lot is done now to minimise the impact on them eg.allowing police interviews to form their evidence and pre-recording questioning via a remote room using CCTV. We definitely do not want to return to the time when children were not considered competent or reliable witnesses to give evidence.

    In any event, I would think the main point of removing the domestic discipline defence would be to send the strong message that corporal punishment is no longer acceptable and thus deterring the conduct. You would hope that the vast majority of folk are law abiding citizens.

    I thought that the stats from the countries where the changes had been implemented reported a decrease in child abuse cases which would actually mean less children being required to give evidence.

    I don't know what current DV stats are but surely it is less prevalent now than when society openly condoned physical "discipline" by a husband to his wife.

    I agree that other measures might also be beneficial. A change in the law will not do all that is necessary to prevent child abuse but it is a good start in my view as it sends a very clear message that it is not acceptable to use corporal punishment. Early intervention for families at risk and under pressure, including support and education for parents would also assist.
    heartily disagree re DV prevalence - as many as 1 in 3 or 4 women are victims of DV in this country, an alarmingly high figure, despite laws against it.

    As for your first paragraph, it is your opinion and fair enough. But I heartily disagree re children giving evidence even via CCTV, unless it is regarding physical assault in which a child has been injured in which case of course it's a crime.

    A decrease in reported child abuse cases does not constitute a decrease in child abuse incidence.

    I need to leave it there... I've given my opinions and really have nothing more to add and have other things to do. It's been interesting.


 

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