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  1. #91
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    I take your points but I genuinely would hope Australian parents would be advanced enough to realise smacking is out of date and unnecessary. The article in yesterday's Age really resonated with me about how in the 33 countries where smacking has been made illegal (and my understanding of the convention is that it extends to all forms of corporal punishment) there have been significant reductions in child abuse generally and crime rates. So many posters yesterday were saying it wouldn't make a difference but clearly there is compelling evidence to the contrary.

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/ou...725-2qnl5.html

    I think it's great that the College of Physicians will be running an advertising campaign to raise awareness of this issue.

    I believe that for every 9 parents who smack "reasonably" (or however it is phrased) there will be 1 that doesn't and that parent may cause significant harm to a child. There are enough cases of children being beaten to death by their parents who believed it was discipline. If a law like this saved those kids lives then I personally believe it's worth it.

    I guess I don't understand (and never will) why some parents are so reluctant to challenge their views on smacking (or how they discipline their children generally). I am far from a perfect parent (very, very far) and nor do I believe everything I do is correct, but I am prepared to listen to experts and challenge the way I go about parenting.

    ETA I also don't agree with a slippery slope / what next argument. There doesn't seem to have been any problems in countries where smacking is illegal with this - why are we so scared?
    Last edited by Sonja; 27-07-2013 at 11:31.

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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I take your points but I genuinely would hope Australian parents would be advanced enough to realise smacking is out of date and unnecessary. The article in yesterday's Age really resonated with me about how in the 33 countries where smacking has been made illegal (and my understanding of the convention is that it extends to all forms of corporal punishment) there have been significant reductions in child abuse generally and crime rates. So many posters yesterday were saying it wouldn't make a difference but clearly there is compelling evidence to the contrary.

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/ou...725-2qnl5.html

    I think it's great that the College of Physicians will be running an advertising campaign to raise awareness of this issue.

    I believe that for every 9 parents who smack "reasonably" (or however it is phrased) there will be 1 that doesn't and that parent may cause significant harm to a child. There are enough cases of children being beaten to death by their parents who believed it was discipline. If a law like this saved those kids lives then I personally believe it's worth it.

    I guess I don't understand (and never will) why some parents are so reluctant to challenge their views on smacking (or how they discipline their children generally). I am far from a perfect parent (very, very far) and nor do I believe everything I do is correct, but I am prepared to listen to experts and challenge the way I go about parenting.

    ETA I also don't agree with a slippery slope / what next argument. There doesn't seem to have been any problems in countries where smacking is illegal with this - why are we so scared?
    I agree that smacking is outdated and unnecessary.

    Personally, I am scared of escalating levels of government control in our lives.

    I recently read an article that stated more than 50% of children who died from diseases in QLD between 2004-2012 were unvaccinated. I know it's a separate issue, but there are many who would argue against making vaccinating mandatory. We all have different views on the level of interference a government should have in the decisions we make for our children.

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  5. #93
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    I think people are missing the fact that even "normal" smacking can damage kids - not physically perhaps, and maybe not immediately, but it can do long term emotional damage. Those who say they were smacked and turned out ok can never actually know if that is true - there is no way to know if they would've been a little less anxious, a little more trusting, a little more successful in life... etc etc. nobody knows. But the stats quoted earlier from countries who have banned it, would suggest that in fact people do better if they aren't smacked as kids.
    Food for thought at the very least.

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  7. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by twotrunks View Post
    I think people are missing the fact that even "normal" smacking can damage kids - not physically perhaps, and maybe not immediately, but it can do long term emotional damage. Those who say they were smacked and turned out ok can never actually know if that is true - there is no way to know if they would've been a little less anxious, a little more trusting, a little more successful in life... etc etc. nobody knows. But the stats quoted earlier from countries who have banned it, would suggest that in fact people do better if they aren't smacked as kids.
    Food for thought at the very least.
    But, and I know I am playing devil's advocate here, what about shouting? Could that not psychologically scar children too? Does it not constitute emotional abuse?

    I was smacked as a child. Not very often, and not very hard. I consider myself to be a confident, non anxious, successful adult, and I have a great relationship with my parents. Would it have been different if they'd never smacked me? Who knows? Would it have been different if they'd shouted at me/ not shouted at me/ raised me as a vegetarian? Who knows?

    Should we legislate against shouting?

    We know that children are more likely to survive if they are vaccinated. Should we legislate to make that mandatory?

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  9. #95
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    I think we live in enough of a nanny state as it is. What next?

    Forced vaccinations?
    Illegal to feed children coke and Maccas?

    So no I don't think smacking should be illegal although I in no way agree with it.

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  11. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by twotrunks View Post
    I think people are missing the fact that even "normal" smacking can damage kids - not physically perhaps, and maybe not immediately, but it can do long term emotional damage. Those who say they were smacked and turned out ok can never actually know if that is true - there is no way to know if they would've been a little less anxious, a little more trusting, a little more successful in life... etc etc. nobody knows. But the stats quoted earlier from countries who have banned it, would suggest that in fact people do better if they aren't smacked as kids.
    Food for thought at the very least.
    That is not true, any child that is traumatised by their parents was abused, which is afar cry from smacking.

    How can you say smacking causes more trauma than getting yelled it, having their civil rights violated through play pens or time out, or the trauma of seeing your parents fight. I could say I would now be a little less Anxious if my parents did not deprive me of the barbie I wanted. Your clutching at straws there is no way smacking not abuse is any more detrimental than other forms of discipline.

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  13. #97
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    Haven't read every post. However I have read many, and after reading what AM said I did a little research into NZ's smacking laws.

    Initially I said that while I did not agree with it, I was unsure of whether it should be illegal. I am now of the opinion that it should be illegal. I have concerns as to how the legislation would be enforced and worded however. It concerns me that allegations could be made in family law courts that could tarnish the reputation of a parent for example.

    If it was clearly defined, and coupled with an ongoing education campaign for parents, I believe it would be a good thing.

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  15. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by risfaerie View Post
    Haven't read every post. However I have read many, and after reading what AM said I did a little research into NZ's smacking laws.

    Initially I said that while I did not agree with it, I was unsure of whether it should be illegal. I am now of the opinion that it should be illegal. I have concerns as to how the legislation would be enforced and worded however. It concerns me that allegations could be made in family law courts that could tarnish the reputation of a parent for example.

    If it was clearly defined, and coupled with an ongoing education campaign for parents, I believe it would be a good thing.

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    Yep great idea, pass over to our under resourced and under caring government child protection workers more to do and take resources away from those kids in abusive homes. Such a logical concept because there is no other way to monitor and enforce. Yay for putting more kids into unsupported foster homes, because this will be the outcome people, if you really think it through. Our system cannot cope with the kids in need now, how an earth will it cope with kids that get a smack on the bum??? If your all for it being illegal how the hell will it be enforced?

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  17. #99
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    Kw..I'm sure forced vaccs are on the way.

    How can enforcing punishment for smacking possibly be enforced? ? If u want to smack ur kid you'll do it no matter what. ..you'll just not do it in front if anyone or at home. And what's there to say that ppl wont rort it or abuse...dob in family members they don't like to the police and just say they have seen them smacking their kids. ..how can u prove it either way? ?? I don't believe it should be illegal. ..cause there's just no way of properly enforcing it...cases of full on child abuse is a different story.

    I was hit as a child...more times than I care to remember and it made me really fear my father. Our relationship although a BIT more better is still severly strained and ill never have that closeness or acceptance I crave. I vowed to myself never to put my son through that. .. to make him fearful and resentful of me. I hope it never happens. I've given him a light tap on his hands but that's as far as it's gone. I refuse to use smacking as a form of discipline! !

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    I hadn't realised smacking was such an epidemic here that we needed to consider banning it.

    I think there are too many levels of smacking, and its too arbitrary to really be able to enforce a law like that successfully. I don't think many parents actually like snacking their children. Perhaps we need to focus more on repetitive smacking and those parents who are regular and repeat offenders using excessive force when smacking. But charging for isolated incidences, no I don't think that's fair to parents who know their own situations and children best.

    And having grown up with a step-father who was prone to fits of rage, I can vouch for the fact that there is a very big difference between the occasional smack and real ongoing abuse. My mum smacked us occasionally but that was not even comparable to the fear we felt when my step-father was in one of his 'moods' and yet my SF never even hit or smacked me once in the 14 years.

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