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  1. #81
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    It is an incredibly hard issue. I would love for people smuggling to cease and for these people to have access to less dangerous methods of travel to Australia. I would love for there to actually be a proper "queue", which was more than just a metaphor for spending the rest of your life in a refugee camp.

    I think the entire system, at the very least in Australia, needs to be overhauled. I think we need to make it easier for people to access our country to seek Asylum. I think we as country need to be proactive and create safer methods for individuals to seek Asylum. I think we need to disband our practice of imprisoning innocent people for seeking Asylum.

    Unfortunately, these changes take money, and they also take a population who have empathy for other human beings. Sadly I don't see this in the greater population of Australia anymore. For many of us here on BH, sure I see it. Sadly I see many people who believe the cr@p printed in our main****** newspapers, and many people who find it far too easy to write these PEOPLE off as not important.

    Sorry, but the attitude I see towards Asylum seekers really upsets me. As in I am sitting at work nearly in tears of frustration and sadness due to this issue upsets me!

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  3. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    <img src="images/smilies/confused.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Confused" smilieid="10" class="inlineimg"
    Who has said that?

    I feel sorry for kids who are raised by parents who think that it is ok to assault police.
    I will rephrase. I feel sorry for kids being raised by parents with the same views as yours on this issue.

    And I am once again invoking the "don't engage with Father rule". This time it's because I am genuinely upset, not angry. Not upset by you Father, the whole thing.

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  5. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    No. Violence against police and staff is not acceptable under any circumstances.

    When you stand on your mountain of privilege, you must be so high up that it is hard for you to look at things from the perspective of those with none. I am sure you've never suffered the trauma of fleeing for your very life, undertaking a dangerous sea voyage to arrive in a country that is bound by international law to help you, only to be locked up for years on end, despite having committed no crime. You can't say how you'd react, you can't guarantee you would never lash out, because chances are, your life has been so comfortable that the thought of lashing out at authority seems absurd to you. Maybe if you had fled from a place where the authorities were corrupt, violent and actively persecuting you, you might feel differently. At the moment, it seems your privilege far outweighs your empathy.

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  7. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    No. Violence against police and staff is not acceptable under any circumstances.
    I didn't ask whether you would get violent. I do not condone violence either. I also don't condone the incarceration of innocent individuals.

    I asked whether you would get angry, and be tempted to protest or riot. I would certainly be tempted to do so in their position. Does not mean that I would do it, I have never been in their position. But I would certainly feel angry and trapped. I believe most people would.

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  9. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by redlipsandpearls View Post


    But (and a big part of my confusion), is PNG really going to be a better place than those that they are fleeing from? Not just financially, but how will the 'locals' treat asylum seekers? Will they allow them to integrate into society?
    A client of mine is a lawyer for the DPP (NSW) and he has taken a few jobs all over the world on behalf of Australian Government to help other governments with their legal systems ( has lived in Solomon Islands and Fiji) and we usually rent out their home for the time they are gone - he was offered PNG and was told not to bring his wife and kids as its too dangerous, he lasted 6 months as he was telling us last year it's pretty bad over there - he had to have security guards go with him whenever he left the "compound" as the locals don't like Australians , he said the biggest problem is there are so many different native tribes and they each have their own leaders and sets of rules which is why Australia has been trying to help them get their justice system working properly, he had to travel out of the main towns to the smaller local towns to attend trials and he said its very third world with a lot of poverty and crime , a lack of proper medical facilities and a big drug problem

    So no I don't think the natives of PNG will be happy about what is being proposed

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  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Png is essentially a third world country with many social problems of its own. Sending people fleeing from violence to a country that has big problems with violence itself is madness. And I don't believe for a second that it will stop the boats, and here is why:

    It is a bandaid. A quick fix to balm the bigots and win their votes. It will not fix the root cause. It will not stop these people being persecuted in their own country. Until that is addressed- they will continue to flee.
    Oh I know that PNG isn't an ideal country, especially after dating a guy from PNG and hearing his stories. That's why I was questioning why our government thinks that it would be a suitable alternative.

    And as I said to babyla, I never thought it would stop the boats, but maybe lessen the 'ticket' price meaning the people smugglers aren't taking away all of the money these people have. Say, they charge $10k pp to come to Australia, with so many opportunities, would they still be able to fill their boats if they charge that amount for the chance to go to a country that is maybe slightly, if at all, better than the place their fleeing from? Iykwim

    ETA the only reason why I'm thinking maybe it's good because it may lessen the exploitation is that I'm holding on to the hope that our government actually will process these asylum seekers and let them in to Australia. Sadly, that probably won't be the case
    Last edited by atomicmama; 20-07-2013 at 09:13.

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  13. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by kw123 View Post
    I will rephrase. I feel sorry for kids being raised by parents with the same views as yours on this issue.
    I don't get offended by comments from anonymous people on the internet, but your comment is quite bizarre. I am entitled to have my views on topics. Your view is not the only correct one, and I don't see why you feel you should pitty my children based upon my differing political views to you. That is equivalent to me saying that I feel sorry for children of those who vote Green.

    Don't feel sorry for my kids. That are happy as could be. They are well cared for. But, if you feel you want to make a donation to help me further care for them, feel free to PM me and I'll give you my bank details.

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  15. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    I don't get offended by comments from anonymous people on the internet, but your comment is quite bizarre. I am entitled to have my views on topics. Your view is not the only correct one, and I don't see why you feel you should pitty my children based upon my differing political views to you. That is equivalent to me saying that I feel sorry for children of those who vote Green.

    Don't feel sorry for my kids. That are happy as could be. They are well cared for. But, if you feel you want to make a donation to help me further care for them, feel free to PM me and I'll give you my bank details.<img src="images/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" smilieid="92" class="inlineimg"
    Haha - that last part was witty I will grant you.

    I would never feel sorry for anyone based on differing political views. This is NOT a political issue. This is people's lives we are taking about. It's a humanitarian issue. The fact that an Australian political party has views about it and fights dirty politics with it as an issue, does not in any way make it a political issue.

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  17. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    When you stand on your mountain of privilege, you must be so high up that it is hard for you to look at things from the perspective of those with none. I am sure you've never suffered the trauma of fleeing for your very life, undertaking a dangerous sea voyage to arrive in a country that is bound by international law to help you, only to be locked up for years on end, despite having committed no crime. You can't say how you'd react, you can't guarantee you would never lash out, because chances are, your life has been so comfortable that the thought of lashing out at authority seems absurd to you. Maybe if you had fled from a place where the authorities were corrupt, violent and actively persecuting you, you might feel differently. At the moment, it seems your privilege far outweighs your empathy.
    Thankyou for your assumptions, but you have no idea where I have come from and what I have experienced.

    If you feel that it is ok that people in difficult situations are entitled to express themselves through the use of violence then that is up to you. But I don't feel that it is appropriate when you are asking for help, that you bite the hand that feeds you.

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  19. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by kw123 View Post
    Haha - that last part was witty I will grant you.

    I would never feel sorry for anyone based on differing political views. This is NOT a political issue. This is people's lives we are taking about. It's a humanitarian issue. The fact that an Australian political party has views about it and fights dirty politics with it as an issue, does not in any way make it a political issue.
    If you think this can stay outside of politics, then who do you think can fix the problem? If you expect the government to fix it, then it is political. If you want to solve the humanitarian issue yourself, along with the rest, then pull out your wallets and donate or join/form a non political organisation and go and do something about it.


 

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