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  1. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    So is the suggestion here that as long as you speak English and are white you are welcomed? It seemingly suggests that people are racist for wanting more information on non English speaking asylum seekers and people from noncaucasian countries are racist.

    Me, I don't care if you initially dont speak English (as a health care worker I've treated many immigrants (both asylum seekers and people who have arrived by other means)), but I do think learning the native tongue is a good start to assimilating. I've conversed with many people who dont speak English (sometimes with an interpreter and sometimes without), I use a lot of nonverbal communication cues.

    When I travelled to china for 10days, I tried to learn mandarin, it was crude but I made an effort.

    I find the insinuation that people are only accepting of immigrants who speak english and light skinned quite presumptuous and trying to suggest others are racist. Which is likely untrue.

    I'm using the term here of immigrants as when emotive statements are made such as "nobody had an issue with him as he spoke English and white skinned" to be nothing to do with refugees (some refugees have perfect English) and everything to do with trying to turn this thread into a racist issue which I didn't think it was
    White, English speaking people ARE more welcome in our society. You'd have to be blind not to see it. It's not, from what I have read, because they want more info on refugees- there is plenty of information out there if only people would turn away from chain emails and Facebook posts and actually seek information from a reputable source. Are you really surprised that others are racist? Not necessarily on this thread but in general.
    Facebook alone is full of groups like F@ck off, we're full, Speak English or p!ss off and don't even start me on other online groups like stormfront Racism is alive and well in Australia.
    Learning English is definitely a smart move for any immigrant, I agree, but from what I understand, it's really, really hard. And I know from working in retail some time ago, that many Australians are impatient with imperfect English. It must be a nerve wracking experience!

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  3. #632
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amiedoll View Post
    Sure thing, I'd have no problem with that, as long as people who have been living in camps for decades get here first.
    Do people just not like poor refugees? I don't see why people who have the money to fly to Indonesia get first dibs on a place here.
    I keep hearing how horrible those camps are and how no one wants to go there (and would do anything to avoid it) but no one has a problem with the people who are already stuck there.

    This is a bit more confrontational than I like to be, I'm sorry, I'm just so frustrated and feel helpless to know no one gives much thought to those poor people.
    My plan to fix it is this I think it's time a list was drawn up, priority given to those in the camps for the longest. I also think that all the countries that accept refugees should start working together to get all of the refugees a safe home. Over a hundred years to place everyone just isn't good enough
    I also think the UN needs more authority, an army (consisting of members of all signatories), the right to arrest anyone convicted of crimes or human rights violations (no extradition needed), and I think a charter of human rights and responsibilities needs to be drawn up and signed world wide (harsh penalties for non compliance).
    That's my plan for world peace



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    While I see where you're coming from, I think you might have missed one important factor- instead of those in camps the longest, how about those facing the most immediate threat? Having money doesn't make you less likely to be in danger- even people in camps may have considerable money (that they likely can't access, I realise). What about young people whose families pool their resources to get them out by boat? Teens? I think it's a misconception that people flying to Indo and getting on boats are wealthy, and also that wealthy people are some how less at risk of persecution and murder than poor people. Wealthy people who've held important positions are often targeted.

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  5. #633
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caviar View Post
    In my view, someone with personal experience can lack the objectivity this topic needs in order to arrive at some workable resolutions. It doesn't detract from the value of their story but can restrict their world view somewhat. I have written about this before in here. So no, I don't think it matters whether you have an academic background or you're a factory worker from down the road. Not all perspectives need to be cleansed by a university before they are deemed to be suitable..
    Restricts their world view? Experience and education only widens your view rather than narrowing it. It actually helps you gain insight into how policies work in reality. As someone who does work writing policy (not for this particular issue) the people who come up with the most dynamic, workable, intelligent solutions are the ones who have academic knowledge but most of all experience on the ground and in the trenches.

    Maybe we should just have people making policies who get their information from today tonight and a current affairs. That might be a better way to maintain "objectivity".

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  7. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    While I see where you're coming from, I think you might have missed one important factor- instead of those in camps the longest, how about those facing the most immediate threat? Having money doesn't make you less likely to be in danger- even people in camps may have considerable money (that they likely can't access, I realise). What about young people whose families pool their resources to get them out by boat? Teens? I think it's a misconception that people flying to Indo and getting on boats are wealthy, and also that wealthy people are some how less at risk of persecution and murder than poor people. Wealthy people who've held important positions are often targeted.
    I'm sure that's true too I'd like to see everyone settled and safe ASAP.


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  9. #635
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    In regards to the "queue"...

    Taken from:

    http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliame...#_Toc348096470


    Are asylum seekers ‘queue jumpers’?

    There is a view that asylum seekers, particularly those who arrive in Australia by boat, are ‘jumping the queue’ and taking the place of a more deserving refugee awaiting resettlement in a refugee camp. The concept of an orderly queue does not accord with the reality of the asylum process. Paul Power, CEO of the Refugee Council of Australia (RCOA) notes that:
    Implicit in this view is that Australia should not be bothered by people seeking protection under the Refugee Convention and that genuine refugees should go to other countries and wait patiently in the hope that Australia may choose to resettle them.[25]
    The reality is that only a small proportion of asylum seekers are registered with the UNHCR and only 11 per cent of asylum claims were registered with the UNHCR in 2011.[26]
    Once registered with the UNHCR, many refugees seek resettlement to a country such as Australia. Refugees do not have a right to be resettled, and states are not obliged under the 1951 Refugee Convention or any other instrument to accept refugees for resettlement. It is a voluntary scheme co-ordinated by the UNHCR which, amongst other things, facilitates burden-sharing amongst signatory states. Resettlement therefore complements and is not a substitute for the provision of protection to people who apply for asylum under the Convention.
    According to the UNHCR, less than 1 per cent of the world’s refugees may be resettled in any given year:
    Resettlement benefits a comparatively small number of refugees: in 2011 less than 1 per cent of the world’s refugees benefited from this durable solution … the number of resettlement places offered by States has not significantly increased over the years and has remained at around 80 000. Global resettlement needs, assessed at some 800 000, thus exceeded the number of places available by a ratio of 1:10.[27]
    For refugees in protracted situations (in exile for five years or more) the UNHCR points out that there are limited options:
    The absence of a solution for millions of refugees in protracted situations continues to pose a major challenge to UNHCR and its partners, to host countries, the refugees themselves and the international community at large.[28]
    At the end of 2011 the UNHCR estimated that almost three quarters of the world’s refugee population under UNHCR mandate (more than 7.1 million) was trapped in protracted situations and for whom there was limited hope of finding a solution in the near future.[29]
    Due to an absence of durable solutions for refugees the focus of the UNHCR in most refugee camps is on voluntary repatriation.[30] Despite the UNHCR’s best efforts, at the end of 2011 25.9 million people, including 10.4 million refugees, were receiving protection or assistance from the UNHCR (many in protracted refugee situations).[31]

  10. #636
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    An asylum seeker journey - 8 minutes

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-1...ourney/4747668

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    It's sad that the government had already introduced the "no advantage principle" a year ago so all the qualms about supposed queue jumpers were now invalid. One of the main issues that people seemed to have such a big problem with - that of refugees somehow pushing ahead in line even though that never happened at all anyway thanks to the method in which they're processed - had now been definitively spelled out for all those who are the first to cut in front of you at Aldi. And yet of course it's all now moot anyway. Horrible stuff.

    http://www.immi.gov.au/managing-aust...et-english.pdf

  12. #638
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  14. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Having money doesn't make you less likely to be in danger-
    Yeah, this. Money does not mean that you are somehow "safer" than those without. I linked a story back a few pages, about two teenage girls in Pakistan who were killed by their step brother in an honour killing - they were dancing in the rain. THeir mother was also killed because she got in the way. The armed gang burst into their *house* they were obviously wealthy enough to be in a house. It didn't stop them being murdered. How are they any less deserving of help? Money didn't save them in the end. Money is not going to save you if you are gay and in Iran.

    Everyone deserves to live their life without persecution - the poorest of the poor and those with money as well.

    And just because I believe that doesn't mean I don't feel deeply for those in refugee camps. Something needs to be done - it is ridiculous that we freak out about boat people in the first place, when there are so few - and yet tens of millions of people who need help. The whole thing is insane.

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  16. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    Yeah, this. Money does not mean that you are somehow "safer" than those without. I linked a story back a few pages, about two teenage girls in Pakistan who were killed by their step brother in an honour killing - they were dancing in the rain. THeir mother was also killed because she got in the way. The armed gang burst into their *house* they were obviously wealthy enough to be in a house. It didn't stop them being murdered. How are they any less deserving of help? Money didn't save them in the end. Money is not going to save you if you are gay and in Iran.

    Everyone deserves to live their life without persecution - the poorest of the poor and those with money as well.

    And just because I believe that doesn't mean I don't feel deeply for those in refugee camps. Something needs to be done - it is ridiculous that we freak out about boat people in the first place, when there are so few - and yet tens of millions of people who need help. The whole thing is insane.
    100%

    Do you know anything about the Lowy report beebs? I can't find an actual link to the report directly...

    "Although the proportion of asylum seekers arriving by boat has increased significantly in the last few years, and boat arrivals continue to be the focus of much public and political attention, they are in fact more likely to be recognised as refugees than those who have arrived by air. For example, the progressive protection visa grant rate for asylum seekers from the top country of citizenship for boat arrivals (Afghanistan) has varied between about 80 and 95 per cent since 2009; while the final protection visa grant rate for those applying for asylum from the top country of citizenship for air arrivals (China) is usually only around 20 to 30 per cent.[34]

    Dr Khalid Koser (Lowy Institute for International Policy) notes that:
    The reason this ... point is important is that it means that arguably Australia is worrying about the wrong asylum seekers. Whereas the majority of those arriving by boat are refugees, the majority of those arriving by air are not.


 

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