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  1. #621
    Witwicky's Avatar
    Witwicky is offline A closed mouth gathers no foot.
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    I'm an armchair warrior from way back.

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  3. #622
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    Mod-pegasus is offline ADMINISTRATOR
    and all that the Lorax left here in this mess was a small pile of rocks with the one word...UNLESS
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    Same, but my dad was an actual illegal immigrant. Not claiming asylum or anything. Just loved it and stayed - and no one ever had a problem with him because he was white and spoke English. The irony is not lost on me
    So is the suggestion here that as long as you speak English and are white you are welcomed? It seemingly suggests that people are racist for wanting more information on non English speaking asylum seekers and people from noncaucasian countries are racist.

    Me, I don't care if you initially dont speak English (as a health care worker I've treated many immigrants (both asylum seekers and people who have arrived by other means)), but I do think learning the native tongue is a good start to assimilating. I've conversed with many people who dont speak English (sometimes with an interpreter and sometimes without), I use a lot of nonverbal communication cues.

    When I travelled to china for 10days, I tried to learn mandarin, it was crude but I made an effort.

    I find the insinuation that people are only accepting of immigrants who speak english and light skinned quite presumptuous and trying to suggest others are racist. Which is likely untrue.

    I'm using the term here of immigrants as when emotive statements are made such as "nobody had an issue with him as he spoke English and white skinned" to be nothing to do with refugees (some refugees have perfect English) and everything to do with trying to turn this thread into a racist issue which I didn't think it was

  4. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    So is the suggestion here that as long as you speak English and are white you are welcomed? It seemingly suggests that people are racist for wanting more information on non English speaking asylum seekers and people from noncaucasian countries are racist.

    Me, I don't care if you initially dont speak English (as a health care worker I've treated many immigrants (both asylum seekers and people who have arrived by other means)), but I do think learning the native tongue is a good start to assimilating. I've conversed with many people who dont speak English (sometimes with an interpreter and sometimes without), I use a lot of nonverbal communication cues.

    When I travelled to china for 10days, I tried to learn mandarin, it was crude but I made an effort.

    I find the insinuation that people are only accepting of immigrants who speak english and light skinned quite presumptuous and trying to suggest others are racist. Which is likely untrue.

    I'm using the term here of immigrants as when emotive statements are made such as "nobody had an issue with him as he spoke English and white skinned" to be nothing to do with refugees (some refugees have perfect English) and everything to do with trying to turn this thread into a racist issue which I didn't think it was
    I don't necessarily think that's the case. I was told point blank after a 10 minute phone interview for my de facto visa that because I was from a country that wasn't considered 'high risk' that my visa would be approved quickly. I got an email later that day with directions of where to send my passport for my visa to be inserted.

    It is a little bit of a race issue, the fact is that if your from particular countries, even Australian immigration doesn't have a problem with making the process fairly easy for you.

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  6. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    So is the suggestion here that as long as you speak English and are white you are welcomed? It seemingly suggests that people are racist for wanting more information on non English speaking asylum seekers and people from noncaucasian countries are racist.

    at people are only accepting of immigrants who speak english and light skinned quite presumptuous and trying to suggest others are racist. Which is likely untrue.

    I'm using the term here of immigrants as when emotive statements are made such as "nobody had an issue with him as he spoke English and white skinned" to be nothing to do with refugees (some refugees have perfect English) and everything to do with trying to turn this thread into a racist issue which I didn't think it was
    No, I am suggesting, that people often fear cultures they don't understand. I am also suggesting that people are easily led by the media. No shame in that, I'm sure everyone to some degree. No one ever mentions the 90% of Asylum people who arrive here with no papers on planes. Why is that? What is it specifically about "boat people"? A PP said it was because boats where dangerous. But that goes against the interviews I saw a few months back of people in Western sydney who were saying things like "they come over here, and steal our jobs", "they could be terrorist", "they could be carrying all kinds of diseases", "They should just go home". The same could be said for people claiming asylum on planes - but it isn't, it just never is. What is that about?

    I am absolutely not suggesting that people on this thread are racist - although I couldn't say that about some Australians, one only needs to read the comments after any story about boat people.

    Nobody ever questioned my dads motives for coming here, as and illegal immigrant. The question needs to follow - why is that the case? Why did no one care?

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  8. #625
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    So people agree that the issue is the boats, why don't we fly in asylum seekers from Indonesia and process their claims, so they don't have to get on a boat?

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  10. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyla View Post
    So people agree that the issue is the boats, why don't we fly in asylum seekers from Indonesia and process their claims, so they don't have to get on a boat?
    Sure thing, I'd have no problem with that, as long as people who have been living in camps for decades get here first.
    Do people just not like poor refugees? I don't see why people who have the money to fly to Indonesia get first dibs on a place here.
    I keep hearing how horrible those camps are and how no one wants to go there (and would do anything to avoid it) but no one has a problem with the people who are already stuck there.

    This is a bit more confrontational than I like to be, I'm sorry, I'm just so frustrated and feel helpless to know no one gives much thought to those poor people.
    My plan to fix it is this I think it's time a list was drawn up, priority given to those in the camps for the longest. I also think that all the countries that accept refugees should start working together to get all of the refugees a safe home. Over a hundred years to place everyone just isn't good enough
    I also think the UN needs more authority, an army (consisting of members of all signatories), the right to arrest anyone convicted of crimes or human rights violations (no extradition needed), and I think a charter of human rights and responsibilities needs to be drawn up and signed world wide (harsh penalties for non compliance).
    That's my plan for world peace



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  11. #627
    Ana Gram's Avatar
    Ana Gram is offline 2008 WINNER - straight shooter award
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    Unfortunately people stuck in the camps for a long time are usually without identifying information. The UNHCR just doesn't have enough resources to process them quickly.


    Peg, I don't think the 'racist' element can be discounted. Most countries have a racist element, it's part of nature to be fearful of things that are different. most animals, including humans, have this trait for survival.

    For Australia specifically, the White Australia policy is still in living memory. these attitudes take many many generations to overcome and we are nowhere near that yet. The fact that many asylum seekers coming to Australia are Muslim does play a factor in the wider community due to actions of terrorist who happen to be Muslim.

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    Ana - with the current situation globally, do you think there is a way to stop people getting on boats?

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    Because knowing someone is talking from personal experience gives their story more credibility in my eyes. And that is something that is sorely needed in a debate such as this where the mistruth and propaganda on both sides is overwhelming.
    I don't think it matters. The mythology, untruths and propaganda regarding this subject are borne from both sides of the coin. It doesn't matter how many times you point out factual elements of law or issues that have been clearly illustrated. People just look at the poster's name and make a decision accordingly.

    Likewise, people in this country are welcomed if they are white and speak English. This is a fact I see everyday in my line of work. It may offend those with a keen sense of political correctness but the reality is that you can't programme people to think or say what you feel is correct. Sure, we have racial vilification laws that keep people in line but ultimately, as someone else has pointed out, there are attitudes in this society which clearly remain white and English as unpalatable as that may be. Have a listen to talkback radio and this will give you an indication of what sort of people harbour such attitudes and why they support the new PNG resettlement policy. Sure, it may well cause you to shake your head but the fact remains is that these people exist and there are a lot of them around!

    In my view, someone with personal experience can lack the objectivity this topic needs in order to arrive at some workable resolutions. It doesn't detract from the value of their story but can restrict their world view somewhat. I have written about this before in here. So no, I don't think it matters whether you have an academic background or you're a factory worker from down the road. Not all perspectives need to be cleansed by a university before they are deemed to be suitable. I don't think the term ''armchair warrior'' helps though and I feel sorry for those who use that term. This not only smacks of elitism and exclusion but also illustrates a deep sense of insecurity: which is pretty much how we ended up with this policy in the first place.

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    This sums it up for me (that's my daughter). It's a disgusting policy that I would not want applied to myself.

    Please don't quote the picture, I will delete later.

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