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  1. #561
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirst33 View Post
    The **** was me tagging my previous quote so you could find what I was pointing out.
    Thankyou.

  2. #562
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Not necessarily. There are some charity funded schools in MAlaysia for refugee kids. Pretty shoddy ones though. I'm assuming Australian $$ could help upgrade them. Adults don't need to work if they are in detention awaiting processing. As long as they receive sufficient aid.
    The are not in detention in Indonesia. I think I have said several times now that they also cannot work, and have no legal rights. They are considered illegal migrants in Indonesia even if they are genuine refugees and as such can be arrested and sent home.

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    Just jumping in so may be missing the point completely, but people need to work for more than just money. Many people need to work to feel useful, to feel like they are contributing to society etc.

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  5. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    But why would it? We don't accept economic refugees now, why would that change? The guidelines for being granted refugee status are really strict.
    I should have said economic refugees bluffing their way through as genuine refugees..

  6. #565
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    And I agree with improving humanitarian aid at the source of the problem. However I don't think it's always that easy. We can't just go barging into a country with our wallets and a big stick. Some countries are more accepting of our 'aid' and 'direction' (PNG). If we tried to step in on others turf (eg Syria) it would probably lead to armed conflict... Which would mean the death of Aussie soldiers and more refugees. Some countries no matter what we do its going to be a ****fight for a long time yet (Afghanistan).
    Yes, your are right. We cannot go into other countries and tell them what to do. Especially since we are pretty low in the international power scale, we would be laughed out of the park.

    The UNHCR does pretty good work and is accepted into places where we are other Western countries cannot get into from an assistance standpoint. The work should be done by them with support from the global community.

    Perhaps the difficulty and long term nature of implementing a workable solution at the source, together with the tragedy of people dying on boats, is why all the pollies are going for the hard core local short term solutions....
    Add to that, that pollies are more interested about how well they do at the next election (the world over) than looking at long term solutions that would most likely see them voted out. Short term solutions are just that, short term. It is simply passing the buck so they don't have to deal with it. Very few places are able to get policies through that are long term. Sh*tty system but that is what we have.

    And global long term solutions would require heads of all nations to be able to get over their own egos and actually start doing something. Not going to happen.

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    Do you think that people just pretend to be refugees and DIAC just goes "righto, here have a refugee visa". It is extremely tough to get approval for a refugee visa, and it often takes years and years.

    DIAC also get it wrong from time to time, there have been cases where people have been refused a refugee visa on the grounds that they weren't "genuine" only to be sent home and killed by those they were fleeing from in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I should have said economic refugees bluffing their way through as genuine refugees..

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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post




    But why would it? We don't accept economic refugees now, why would that change? The guidelines for being granted refugee status are really strict.
    Hi beebs, is this a recent change? Most people come from my home country got accepted as economic refugees and that really bothers me cause I know they aren't likely starving at home, compares to some third world countries where people genuinely have nothing to eat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ana Gram View Post
    The best option here would be for Indonesia to sign the Convention, have legal frameworks for refugees and for UNHCR to be better equipped to register asylum seekers. If the process was better, there would be better outcomes and less incentive to get on a boat.
    I think this is an excellent idea!

    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    This isn't correct father. Often they are working illegally for cash in hand, so not contributing via tax. It's not uncommon for multiple people to use a legit Medicare card therefore getting subsidised care and medication for more than one recipient ( I don't begrudge medical care- just an example of how they can be a drain on the govt). Often money is sent o/s with minimal being spent here. They are also often taking jobs that legal residents could do.

    They don't take refugee places because they aren't generally refugees. They can apply for asylum when they arrive or any time during their stay.

    They arrive with documentation, yes, that says they can stay here and work or study under certain conditions for a certain time. Once the time passes or they breach those conditions, they are breaking the law.
    Many of those visa overstay ppl come from the same countries with asylum seekers so maybe they are just trying to escape poverty or dangerous situation. Maybe they don't take refugee places because of the fear of being deported back to where they try to run away from? I know people working in Australia for $5/hour and live like rats, guess it's even much more horrible in their home country. Not that I support breaking the law either it's visa overstay or people smuggling, but I don't understand why you would be ok with one and not the other.

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    The refugee status is determined by the 1951 Convention this is what it states -

    owing to well founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.

    Applications for protection visas are assessed by trained departmental officers.

    All claims for protection are assessed on an individual basis against the criteria contained in the Refugees Convention and the complementary protection criteria, in accordance with Australian legislation, case law and up-to-date information on conditions in the applicant's country of origin.

    Applicants are expected to put their claims in writing. All applicants are asked to attend an interview to discuss their claims and provide further information if required. Procedural fairness is afforded to all applicants in responding to information that may impact adversely on the outcome of their assessment. Where needed, the department arranges qualified interpreters for any interviews.


    Are you sure that people from your country are actually claiming asylum? The immigration dept states that there are over 800 visas - are they applying for different ones other than refugee? Do you mind me asking what country you are from?

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  13. #570
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    I'll pm you beebs.


 

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