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  1. #551
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    They don't pay any tax. So they aren't actually doing anything beneficial either, everyone else has to pay tax from their hard earned wages. I would have thought that would annoy you of all people.

    You clearly have not read any of the personal stories posted awhile back, some of those people were boat people - and no one could argue they were "undeserving" of our help. Unless of course they found it difficult to be empathetic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    Why do I ignore it? They are mutually exclusive.
    1. They do not cost the government a cent.
    2. They are spending their money in the country.
    3. They are not taking refugee places from other less fortunate people.
    4. They are not dying on the journey here.
    5. They arrive with documentation.

    What do you claim I hate?

  2. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennaisme View Post
    So I stopped reading the thread a while ago, apologies for that if this has been mentioned in the "resolution" conversation.

    If refugees go to Malaysia or Indonesia by air (and I don't claim to know either way. They might or they might swim or they might grow little wings on their boots and flutter there), doesn't Australia have like "Australian ground" or something, where our headquarters are? Would it be acceptable to build a barracks type thing, and when they get to Indonesia they can go to the headquarters, claim asylum and sleep in said barracks and then Australia flies them here?

    It would be safer, it'd probably end up quite cramped, but it'd be safer. It'd stop boats and people smugglers, and isn't that what people want?
    Good idea (well not at the embassy but something similar). But without limitations this would be like a red flag to a bull. It would likely attract a high percentage of people who are 'economic refugees.' The government wouldn't be able to afford the influx that a 5 start program would bring.
    Last edited by VicPark; 25-07-2013 at 18:10.

  3. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    Why do I ignore it? They are mutually exclusive.
    1. They do not cost the government a cent.
    2. They are spending their money in the country.
    3. They are not taking refugee places from other less fortunate people.
    4. They are not dying on the journey here.
    5. They arrive with documentation.

    What do you claim I hate?
    This isn't correct father. Often they are working illegally for cash in hand, so not contributing via tax. It's not uncommon for multiple people to use a legit Medicare card therefore getting subsidised care and medication for more than one recipient ( I don't begrudge medical care- just an example of how they can be a drain on the govt). Often money is sent o/s with minimal being spent here. They are also often taking jobs that legal residents could do.

    They don't take refugee places because they aren't generally refugees. They can apply for asylum when they arrive or any time during their stay.

    They arrive with documentation, yes, that says they can stay here and work or study under certain conditions for a certain time. Once the time passes or they breach those conditions, they are breaking the law.

  4. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ana Gram View Post
    I get what you are thinking here. However, the Australian embassy needs to be kept for diplomatic and citizen use.

    The best option here would be for Indonesia to sign the Convention, have legal frameworks for refugees and for UNHCR to be better equipped to register asylum seekers. If the process was better, there would be better outcomes and less incentive to get on a boat.
    One could only hope!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirst33 View Post
    'Problems created by illegal workers
    Illegal workers create a number of problems within the Australian community.
    They:

    reduce employment opportunities for those with permission to work in Australia

    place an additional burden on the taxpayer in terms of costs associated with locating and removing illegal workers, uncollected taxes and fraudulently claimed government benefits

    disadvantage employers who employ legal workers because they may not be able to compete with those who employ and under-pay illegal workers

    may be subject to exploitation and organised criminal activity

    may not meet the stringent health and character tests undertaken by holders of a visa with work entitlements.'

    http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/87illegal.htm
    Hadn't even thought of this, but would also like to add that these people also don't pay for a visa, and that money goes straight to the government, to fund things like border patrol and everything else the govt pays for.

    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I sort of agree with you, or at least understand where you are coming from. I can see why you don't want the onshore and offshore numbers linked. However I can see why the government does have an overall total each category draws from. If you don't have a cap then chances are the government wouldn't have budgeted to support all the applicants.
    As I mentioned before, it is a fairly recent change that they are linked. Before they weren't linked, but they still each had a cap.


    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Good idea (well not at the embassy but something similar). But without limitations this would be like a red flag to a bull. It would likely attract a high percentage of people who are 'economic refugees.' The government wouldn't be able to afford the influx that a 5 start program would bring.
    But why would it? We don't accept economic refugees now, why would that change? The guidelines for being granted refugee status are really strict.

  5. #555
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    This isn't correct father. Often they are working illegally for cash in hand, so not contributing via tax.
    Which statement was incorrect?

    1. They do not cost the government a cent.
    2. They are spending their money in the country.
    3. They are not taking refugee places from other less fortunate people.
    4. They are not dying on the journey here.
    5. They arrive with documentation.
    I did not say they were paying tax. I would be interested to see some figures on the Medicare rort that you are referring.

  6. #556
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    'They do not cost the government a cent' was incorrect.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Kirst33 For This Useful Post:

    beebs  (25-07-2013)

  8. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirst33 View Post
    'They do not cost the government a cent' was incorrect.
    How?

  9. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirst33 View Post
    'Problems created by illegal workers
    Illegal workers create a number of problems within the Australian community.
    They:

    reduce employment opportunities for those with permission to work in Australia

    ***place an additional burden on the taxpayer in terms of costs associated with locating and removing illegal workers, uncollected taxes and fraudulently claimed government benefits****

    disadvantage employers who employ legal workers because they may not be able to compete with those who employ and under-pay illegal workers

    may be subject to exploitation and organised criminal activity

    may not meet the stringent health and character tests undertaken by holders of a visa with work entitlements.'

    http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/87illegal.htm
    See ****

  10. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirst33 View Post
    See ****
    Not sure what ***** is?

    place an additional burden on the taxpayer in terms of costs associated with locating and removing illegal workers, uncollected taxes and fraudulently claimed government benefits
    As I said before, it would be good to see a figure on how much this is actually costing. Is the search and removal of illegal workers in the budget papers at all?

    If you are concerned about the financial implications, I would suggest this cost would a be a mere drop in the ocean when compared to the budget blowout of the immigration department due to the rapid increase in boat arrivals.
    Happy to be proven wrong if you can find some numbers though.

    ETA: On a side note, just got a coke out of the fridge, opened it and realised it was a beer. Well, guess I have to drink it now.
    Last edited by Father; 25-07-2013 at 18:57.

  11. #560
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    Not sure what ***** is?



    As I said before, it would be good to see a figure on how much this is actually costing. Is the search and removal of illegal workers in the budget papers at all?

    If you are concerned about the financial implications, I would suggest this cost would a be a mere drop in the ocean when compared to the budget blowout of the immigration department due to the rapid increase in boat arrivals.
    Happy to be proven wrong if you can find some numbers though.

    ETA: On a side note, just got a coke out of the fridge, opened it and realised it was a beer. Well, guess I have to drink it now.
    The **** was me tagging my previous quote so you could find what I was pointing out.

    I don't really have a problem with illegal immigrants, the discussion was about the effects they have on Australia, I posted the info from the immigration website. You asked what in your post was wrong, I included it again.


 

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