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  1. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    I can see what you are saying Father, of course Australia cannot house all of the worlds refugees. But what you seem to be forgetting is that the worlds entire population aren't applying for refugee status here, and in terms of head per capita we don't even grant that many refugee visas compared with other countries. I honestly think you are blowing our amount of refugee applications way out of proportion.
    I have not been arguing that we have been taking too many. I have just been saying that I would rather that we take those who cannot help themselves. We have limited spots, and those spots should go to those most in need. I feel that those without anything, including money, are more needy than those with thousands of dollars, and subsequently, options available to them.

    I do not understand why you are all fighting so hard for those that arrive by boat, but not those less fortunate that do not have that option.

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  3. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    I do not understand why you are all fighting so hard for those that arrive by boat, but not those less fortunate that do not have that option.
    I guess I just see it differently. I do absolutely believe that the onshore and offshore program should *not* be linked - it never used to be and worked much better.

    I also wouldn't begrudge someone a spot here, because they may be lucky enough to have family here who are saving all their money to help bring their family over when they are in danger. Money doesn't save your life in those countries, girls still have no hope of anything in places like Afghanistan - regardless of if their families have money.

    I do agree, I think we should be opening up more spaces for people in camps - that is no life for anyone.

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  5. #443
    Witwicky's Avatar
    Witwicky is offline A closed mouth gathers no foot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    I didn't say that we haven't. I asked if we should take the entire population.
    If someone if fleeing persecution in Iran, you cannot assume that they will be unable to live free from persecution in a country such as PNG. Plenty of other people in PNG manage to live there.
    I find the notion that refugees cannot be settled anywhere other than first world countries a bit narrow minded. One could argue that Australia is dangerous too when you read stories of child abuse and drive by shootings. I don't think the utopia that you dream of exists.
    EVERYWHERE in the world is dangerous, to an extent, whether from other humans or from nature itself. That's a given. We are mortal beings after all, and subject to the wrath of our environments.

    However, every human reserves the right to live in a country where their basic human rights are upheld. In developing countries (aka 'third world' in this thread) these are challenges, along with basic human needs such as health and nutrition. Countries need development to reach their best ability, in terms of human rights and human requirements. For such development to occur and be sustainable, individuals in developing countries need to have secure and long term access to the resources required to satisfy their basic needs, whether they be social, economical, civil, political, cultural etc. In some countries, these needs continue to develop. Humans have the right to live in a 'developed' country during their lifetime, so that their basic human rights are met. Australia is a perfect example of one of those countries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    I do not understand why you are all fighting so hard for those that arrive by boat, but not those less fortunate that do not have that option.
    I guess many of us believe it's not such a black and white situation of some being better off than others, they are all disadvantaged.

    I'd love you to answer my question though. What would you do, if you had fled Afghanistan, would spend years in a refugee camp, raising your children in those conditions? Or would you do whatever you could to get to a country like Australia? Would you be happy to be relocated to PNG and raise your children in a detention center/facility there?
    Last edited by Kirst33; 24-07-2013 at 19:18.

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  9. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    Can I ask you a question, in all seriousness Father. Why would you prefer to see people resettled in PNG rather than here? What difference does it make to you?
    I would rather those in camps that don't have any options settled here as, in my opinion, are more in need of support.
    Those who have options (money) can go where they like, including PNG, but our refugee spots should be prioritised to those who have nothing and no options.

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    No Father its you that is discriminating on method of arrival. I'm an advocate for both.

    I dont believe method of arrival is an indicator of highest need, there are far too many other variables. Method of arrival is far too simplistic a measure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post

    at we take those who cannot help themselves. We have limited spots, and those spots should go to those most in need. I feel that those without anything, including money, are more needy than those with thousands of dollars, and subsequently, options available to them.

    I do not understand why you are all fighting so hard for those that arrive by boat, but not those less fortunate that do not have that option.

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  12. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirst33 View Post
    I'd love you to answer my question though. What would you do, if you had fled Afghanistan, would spend years in a refugee camp, raising your children in those conditions? Or would you do whatever you could to get to a country like Australia? Would you be happy to be relocated to PNG and raise your children in a detention center/facility there?
    How can one answer a question like that? I have no context. What country am I in? Am I dual citizen? What/who am I fleeing from? Why? Does my family also need to flee? Why? What religion am I? Do I have money?

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    Quote Originally Posted by babyla View Post
    No Father its you that is discriminating on method of arrival. I'm an advocate for both.

    I dont believe method of arrival is an indicator of highest need, there are far too many other variables. Method of arrival is far too simplistic a measure.
    I guess we should agree to disagree.

    I'm off to bath the kids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    I would rather those in camps that don't have any options settled here as, in my opinion, are more in need of support.
    Those who have options (money) can go where they like, including PNG, but our refugee spots should be prioritised to those who have nothing and no options.
    I see what you mean, but surely asylum seekers (those in camps and on boats, all of them) have come from the same position of danger and persecution? I just don't get why one is more deserving than the other when both were essentially in the same boat (pardon the pun). Some decide to beg, borrow, streak or sell to get away, some do the same to make their way to a camp. Some young people have families that sell everything to put them on a boat for their protection. Why are they not as deserving of a life here, you know?

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    Honestly father, I'm fairly certain you can imagine the scenario I am purposing to you. You are an afghan of a minority group that faces persecution. You flee to Pakistan. You do not have dual citizenship. You can 'wait your turn' in a refugee camp or you can try and get yourself and your family to Australia. Would you? Or would you wait with your family in a camp, potentially for years? Would you be happy to be moved to PNG to raise your family? Let's say your story is similar to Najeeba's posted earlier.

    I'm also curious as to what 'safe' countries surround Afghanistan? Especially when you consider there are Al Qaeda throughout the terrain. There is also the terrain itself, the US military actually sends soldiers to train at the military base in my hometown for the reason that the climate and terrain are similar to Afghanistan. Freezing temperatures, incredibly rough and mountainous terrain...
    Last edited by Kirst33; 24-07-2013 at 19:43.


 

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