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  1. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caviar View Post
    No.

    I will add that use of false passports is not relegated to one nationality either.

    I don't have a problem with the above or country shopping for that matter. I also don't have a problem with researching possible alternatives to this new policy or any other options that might surface during open discourse.

    But I do have a problem with rudeness. A number of you are being outrageously rude and hypocritical in that you are quick to accuse what appears to be the chosen few in here of being inaccurate when there are holes as big as Lake Burley Griffin in your posts.

    If you have not worked at DIMIA, don't comment on their procedures because you simply don't know what they are. You only think you do.

    If you have not lived or visited Malaysia or Indonesia, don't tell us how bad things are over there.

    If you have not travelled by boat, don't assume such knowledge. Again, unless you process claims or were on the ship or patrol boat intercepting the vessel, you simply don't know who's on it.

    If you don't fully understand the term racism, then don't use the term. It's annoying.

    If you have something positive to add to the thread whether it be a personal story, what led you to study a topic such as this one, what you plan to do with it, suggestions as to where Rudd might go if this new policy is sunk (and I have a feeling it will be), what you would do in a Utopian world, etc. then let's hear it.



    If you're at uni and you have access to the library databases, you can find it there. Australian Journal of Social Issues I think it is.

    Pedersen has also co-written a similar work covering the attitudes meted out to Indigenous, Asian, Yugoslav, Italian and Arabic Australians by main****** Australia which puts paid to the oft bandied suggestion that multiculturalism is working well.

    Apparently, as a nation we suck at it.
    If you feel someone has been rude to you and it is bothering you, you should report it. We all have that option here in BH land
    Have you worked at immigration? Lived in Malaysia/Indonesia?travelled by boat? I doubt anyone in this discussion meets all that criteria- but we are indeed still allowed to form and express opinions

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  3. #422
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    Atropos, you need to put down your emotions and actually read what has been written in the post. I would like to think that, as adults (well, that's an assumption on my part anyway), we can conduct an open and civil conversation and enjoy what comes out of it rather than resort to tactics one might find in a high school playground.

    Your questions again indicate that you have not read what has been written. I have not spoken about DIMIA's procedures nor dictated to all and sundry about how bad the conditions are in Malaysia and Indonesia although I have lived in both countries and speak the language.

    Let me also say, because again the point appears to have been missed, is that having an opinion and spewing forth hearsay, half truths and the hurling of insults are two very different things. I most heartily welcome the first and look forward to reading them, especially those formulated with evidence that supports the claim and within the well defined logical and balanced framework of argument.


  4. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caviar View Post
    Atropos, you need to put down your emotions and actually read what has been written in the post. I would like to think that, as adults (well, that's an assumption on my part anyway), we can conduct an open and civil conversation and enjoy what comes out of it rather than resort to tactics one might find in a high school playground.

    Your questions again indicate that you have not read what has been written. I have not spoken about DIMIA's procedures nor dictated to all and sundry about how bad the conditions are in Malaysia and Indonesia although I have lived in both countries and speak the language.

    Let me also say, because again the point appears to have been missed, is that having an opinion and spewing forth hearsay, half truths and the hurling of insults are two very different things. I most heartily welcome the first and look forward to reading them, especially those formulated with evidence that supports the claim and within the well defined logical and balanced framework of argument.

    I'm sorry, I think you've misinterpreted what I said. I wasn't emotional in the least about it. Just that I disagree with what you said- that unless people have done xyz they cannot discuss their thoughts.
    I agree there are a lot of half truths etc being put forward in this thread, but everyone seems to be capably addressing them as they come up. I haven't seen anyone hurling insults though. I know I have called certain people on certain aspects of their posts and posting styles- but those persons are more than capable of hitting report if they feel it necessary and they don't seem to have done so and have instead continued the discussion including addressing those concerns of mine. Many others have done the same. With respect, I agree that we ARE all adults and can handle a chat full of varying thoughts without being told we can't say x unless we've done y etc.

    Regarding DIMIA and there procedures, you did tell us that unless we have worked there we don't know what their procedures are, that we only think we know- I took this to mean you must have some experience there, otherwise, how would you know that? I don't work for them but another agency that deals with them from time to time.

    Back to the topic, you mentioned you've lived in Malaysia and Indo, may I ask which parts and how recently? What do you think of their stance on refugees?

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  6. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    If PNG is not suitable for them, I would have to question exactly what they are fleeing from. If PNG is not suitable for any of them, then should we evacuate the current citizens of PNG and move the entire country here?
    I and I hazard a guess that most women would not feel safe in PNG - resettled there, not with their appalling rates of abuse towards women. And I'm not even a refugee.

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  8. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirst33 View Post
    Don't you love having to constantly repeat yourself about the realities of Indonesia and Malaysia? Do people think they're lying on the beach at a resort sipping cocktails while they await their boat journey?

    What a disgusting comment, stating that they come to Australia for a first world lifestyle. Heaven forbid human beings just want basic human rights!

    Here are some of the challenges listed on the UNHCR regarding Malaysia

    http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49e4884c6.html:

    'Malaysian law makes no distinction between refugees and undocumented migrants. There are some 4 million migrants in the country, approximately 2 million of whom are undocumented and considered illegal. Refugees are vulnerable to arrest for immigration offences, and may be subject to detention, prosecution and punishment, including whipping and deportation. National NGOs have limited capacity to support asylum-seekers and refugees, while international NGOs face significant difficulties in operating in the country....

    'The lack of legal protection in Malaysia means that urban refugees face grave protection risks on a daily basis. Without legal status in the country, refugees face the risk of refoulement, or of arbitrary detention, and they lack legal safeguards in the event they are victims of crimes.

    Without the right to work and reliable livelihood opportunities, they face substantial difficulties in accessing affordable health care and social services, resulting in a largely non-existent social safety net for women and children at risk.

    As they are not allowed to attend government schools, refugee children do not have access to basic education. The fear of arrest and lack of legal status also severely constrain the ability of refugee communities to help themselves.'

    http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49e4884c6.html
    People disagree with you on to what extent the situation in Malaysia/Indonesia is bad for asylum seekers. And to what extent asylum seekers had other *safe* options before transiting to Australia. There is NO judge to say you are right on this issue. So please get off your high horse and deal with it because the hoighty toightiness is doing my head in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    People disagree with you on to what extent the situation in Malaysia/Indonesia is bad for asylum seekers. And to what extent asylum seekers had other *safe* options before transiting to Australia. There is NO judge to say you are right on this issue. So please get off your high horse and deal with it because the hoighty toightiness is doing my head in.
    Funny, I feel the same about you.

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  11. #427
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    I find this odd, I have never been to Pakistan or Afghanistan - but I know they are both extremely dangerous places. I don't need to have been there to know that. I just need to read things. And I do.



    Quote Originally Posted by Caviar View Post
    No.

    I will add that use of false passports is not relegated to one nationality either.

    I don't have a problem with the above or country shopping for that matter. I also don't have a problem with researching possible alternatives to this new policy or any other options that might surface during open discourse.

    But I do have a problem with rudeness. A number of you are being outrageously rude and hypocritical in that you are quick to accuse what appears to be the chosen few in here of being inaccurate when there are holes as big as Lake Burley Griffin in your posts.

    If you have not worked at DIMIA, don't comment on their procedures because you simply don't know what they are. You only think you do.

    If you have not lived or visited Malaysia or Indonesia, don't tell us how bad things are over there.

    If you have not travelled by boat, don't assume such knowledge. Again, unless you process claims or were on the ship or patrol boat intercepting the vessel, you simply don't know who's on it.

    If you don't fully understand the term racism, then don't use the term. It's annoying.

    If you have something positive to add to the thread whether it be a personal story, what led you to study a topic such as this one, what you plan to do with it, suggestions as to where Rudd might go if this new policy is sunk (and I have a feeling it will be), what you would do in a Utopian world, etc. then let's hear it.



    If you're at uni and you have access to the library databases, you can find it there. Australian Journal of Social Issues I think it is.

    Pedersen has also co-written a similar work covering the attitudes meted out to Indigenous, Asian, Yugoslav, Italian and Arabic Australians by main****** Australia which puts paid to the oft bandied suggestion that multiculturalism is working well.

    Apparently, as a nation we suck at it.

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  13. #428
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    Also, Dept of Immigration has not been called "DIMIA" for years and years. They are DIAC.

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  15. #429
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    I cannot believe anyone would think that Pakistan is any better than Afghanistan. This from a few weeks ago.

    "Two teenage girls have been shot dead in an apparent honour killing in Pakistan after a video was circulated showing them dancing in the rain.
    The girls, aged 15 and 16, are seen running around wearing traditional dress, covered in green and purple headscarves, outside their stone bungalow in the town of Chilas, in the far north of the country.


    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/teen-sis...#ixzz2Zwsgljnc

  16. #430
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    Pakistan is a "code orange" on the smart traveller government website, which means reconsider your needs to travel.

    http://m.smartraveller.gov.au/advice/Pakistan

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