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  1. #391
    Ana Gram's Avatar
    Ana Gram is offline 2008 WINNER - straight shooter award
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    According to government figures, 61% of Iranian irregular maritime arrivals have been granted protection visa and the numbers for final protection visa for Iranian irregular maritime arrivals were 1272 out of 1452.

    I don't think anyone is saying that there will not be people trying to claim asylum that are not refugees. They are always going to be people in the world trying to scam. But those people are in the minority and we cannot let that minority be the reason we don't help the majority who do need help.

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  3. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairyfloss View Post
    90% of boat people being genuine refugees, does not contradict my point. Not everyone on the boat are Iranian refugees.
    And are all Iranian refugees escaping Iran with genuine passports?

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    'Asylum seekers who arrive by boat without authorisation are more likely to be found to be refugees than asylum seekers who arrive with valid visas.

    In 2010-11, 89.6 per cent of asylum seekers arriving by boat were found to be refugees, compared to 43.7 per cent of those who arrived with valid visas.

    Are we being swamped by boat arrivals?

    The number of people arriving by boat in Australia is very small. In 2010-11, Australia received 11,491 asylum applications. Less than half of these (5,175) were from asylum seekers who arrived by boat. Over the same period, 2,696 Protection Visas were granted to refugees who arrived by boat. This is just 1.3 per cent of the 213,409 people who migrated to Australia during the year.

    Between 2006 to 2011, 14,215 asylum seekers arrived in Australia by boat. Over the same period, more than 9,000 people arrived by boat in Malta, a country of 426,000 people (compared to Australia’s 23 million); and more than 340,000 people arrived by boat in Yemen, a developing country with a GDP per capita of just over US$1,500 (compared to Australia’s GDP per capita of over US$69,000).'
    http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/f/as-boat.php

    'A further 5175 requests were made in 2010–11 by unauthorised arrivals who came to Australia by boat without a valid visa.[243] The top five countries of citizenship for this group were Afghanistan, Iran, no country of citizenship (stateless), Iraq and Sri Lanka.[244] Approximately 31 per cent were from Afghanistan (compared to 58 per cent in 2009–10), and 30 per cent were from Iran (compared to 4 per cent in 2009–10), while the number of applications by stateless people almost doubled since 2009–10.[245]'
    http://www.humanrights.gov.au/public...-3#Heading1363

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirst33 View Post
    'Asylum seekers who arrive by boat without authorisation are more likely to be found to be refugees than asylum seekers who arrive with valid visas.
    That does not surprise me at all. No papers, no proof of who you are to verify your story. Much easier to lie your way in.
    Our Foreign Minister says as much.

    Senator Carr said those who burned their passports and repeated a well-rehearsed story ought to be put on the defensive.

    "If you have got an argument about persecution, there is no case for burning your passport," he told ABC television.
    "And there is no case for being rehearsed in a story of persecution so that everyone on a vessel tells the same story word for word, leaving the impression that the people smuggler in charge of the process has put them through this."
    http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news...710-2pool.html

    Pay the money, get the boat trip, get the story. Get in.

    I'll say it again. I would much rather offer my helping hand to those who did not have the ability or finances to utilise people smugglers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    That does not surprise me at all. No papers, no proof of who you are to verify your story. Much easier to lie your way in.
    Our Foreign Minister says as much.


    http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news...710-2pool.html

    Pay the money, get the boat trip, get the story. Get in.

    I'll say it again. I would much rather offer my helping hand to those who did not have the ability or finances to utilise people smugglers.
    You think Immigration etc just take people at their word, with no further checks? If that's what you're trying to imply, you're being very naive.
    "Papers" aren't the only way you can be identified. Having money does not mean you aren't in danger or being persecuted. Some people sell everything they own to fund this journey, why does that make them less deserving of claiming asylum??

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  10. #396
    Ana Gram's Avatar
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    People in camps often do not have identifying documentation either. There are many places that these are not routinely issues.

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  12. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    That does not surprise me at all. No papers, no proof of who you are to verify your story. Much easier to lie your way in.
    Do you realise that in some parts of the world there are no such thing as "papers"? In the poorer or remoter areas of some of the countries that have a lot of people fleeing, births are often not recorded. The parents may use seasons to measure time (ie, not calendar years) and not actually know how old their children are. I have no idea what percentage of people and/or asylum seekers this would be but this is a fact for many people in this world.

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    It's a sad state of affairs when the people who are seeking asylum are "choosing" to come here. Because being treated appallingly by us, who claim to be civilized is still better than where they came from.

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    I've said it before, I still don't get what is so terrible about wanting some choice in where you go, anyway. Why do you lose the right to choose where you live when, through no fault of your own, you are forced to flee for your life? The derision heaped on these people with terms like "country shopping" thrown around- seriously- is it not a testament to the opportunities available here than many would choose to live here??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    You think Immigration etc just take people at their word, with no further checks? If that's what you're trying to imply, you're being very naive.
    "Papers" aren't the only way you can be identified. Having money does not mean you aren't in danger or being persecuted. Some people sell everything they own to fund this journey, why does that make them less deserving of claiming asylum??
    To answer your first question - no.
    Your second - again, I would rather help those who did not have time to sell everything they own to fund a boat journey and those who did not have any possessions at all. I'm not sure why you find this so hard to understand. I want to help refugees, but I would rather help those who can't help themselves. We can't take them all.

    In regard to the background checks. Maybe you should right to Minister Carr and explain to him your more knowledgeable position on why they are all telling the same rehearsed story. Do you think that some of these asylum seekers aren't burning or destroying their passports? I would suggest that Carr would not accuse them of doing such without evidence, or do you have such distrust in the current government that you wouldn't believe them?


 

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