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  1. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyla View Post
    I think these are some of the things that make prioritizing via method of arrival such a slippery slope.
    I agree. Not to mention the fact that Australia is party to the CRSR (United Nations Convention in Relation to the status of Refugees).

  2. #382
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    Some interesting reading if anyone is keen, well I found it interesting anyway.

    http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publica...al-2011-12.pdf

    When I started my degree, the situation was quite different compared to now. The highest number of visa refusals come from Chinese asylum seekers who come by air with a visa rather than Afghanis who come by boat.

    ETA: Sorry, completely wrong link I added. I had a lot of tabs open!
    Last edited by Ana Gram; 24-07-2013 at 10:26.

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  4. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by mama and her little bear View Post
    if my options were sit in a camp risking possible death of myself or my sons for years or choose the safest country for my boys then pay someone to take me there I know what I would choose.

    Laws or not I would choose the QUICKEST thing to get my children out of harms way.

    Thankfully I was born in Australia, I will most likely never truly understand fearing for my Childrens lives simply because of where I live
    Asylum seekers that arrive in Australia via boats aren't sitting in their homelands waiting for death. They are sitting in a third country (Indonesia/Malaysia) strategizing about how they are going to get to a first world lifestyle in Australia.
    Last edited by VicPark; 24-07-2013 at 06:37.

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  6. #384
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    Considering they have no rights and can't work ir send their children to school, I actually think it is more likely that most asylum seekers are more worried about where their next meal is coming from, how to feed their children and hiding from the police.

    Have a look at the Burmese Chin in Malaysia. I'll let you research that yourself so that you can find information that you won't dismiss instantly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ana Gram View Post
    Considering they have no rights and can't work ir send their children to school, I actually think it is more likely that most asylum seekers are more worried about where their next meal is coming from, how to feed their children and hiding from the police.

    Have a look at the Burmese Chin in Malaysia. I'll let you research that yourself so that you can find information that you won't dismiss instantly.
    Don't you love having to constantly repeat yourself about the realities of Indonesia and Malaysia? Do people think they're lying on the beach at a resort sipping cocktails while they await their boat journey?

    What a disgusting comment, stating that they come to Australia for a first world lifestyle. Heaven forbid human beings just want basic human rights!

    Here are some of the challenges listed on the UNHCR regarding Malaysia

    http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49e4884c6.html:

    'Malaysian law makes no distinction between refugees and undocumented migrants. There are some 4 million migrants in the country, approximately 2 million of whom are undocumented and considered illegal. Refugees are vulnerable to arrest for immigration offences, and may be subject to detention, prosecution and punishment, including whipping and deportation. National NGOs have limited capacity to support asylum-seekers and refugees, while international NGOs face significant difficulties in operating in the country....

    'The lack of legal protection in Malaysia means that urban refugees face grave protection risks on a daily basis. Without legal status in the country, refugees face the risk of refoulement, or of arbitrary detention, and they lack legal safeguards in the event they are victims of crimes.

    Without the right to work and reliable livelihood opportunities, they face substantial difficulties in accessing affordable health care and social services, resulting in a largely non-existent social safety net for women and children at risk.

    As they are not allowed to attend government schools, refugee children do not have access to basic education. The fear of arrest and lack of legal status also severely constrain the ability of refugee communities to help themselves.'

    http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49e4884c6.html

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    Indonesia does not have a separate profile on the UNHCR website, it is just included with the South-East Asia profile which I will highlight some here:

    http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49e4884c6.html

    'Where no legal framework has been put in place by a State, UNHCR fills the gap by identifying people in need of international protection. Without solid legal frameworks to protect them, refugees and stateless people in the region are treated as illegal migrants, subject to detention and deportation.

    'In Indonesia and Malaysia, UNHCR has faced a steady increase in the number of new arrivals in recent years. The challenge in these countries is to deliver protection in an environment of mixed migration that lacks legal frameworks for dealing with refugees.

    In South-East Asia's complex mixed-migration context, States' interests relating to national security and the maintenance of good relations with neighbours constrain refugee protection and access to asylum. The problem is compounded by the lack of national legal frameworks for dealing with refugees and asylum-seekers in many countries. The use of detention facilities to hold asylum-seekers, refugees and stateless people, including children and others vulnerable to exploitation and abuse, is a worrying trend. In addition, many urban refugees and asylum-seekers face a precarious situation due to limited livelihood opportunities or access to social services.'

    The Philippines is the only country in South-East Asia that has sign the 1954 convention, no country has signed the 1961 Protocol.

    If you had just fled Afghanistan would you risk staying in a country that may deport you, back to a dangerous country you just fled? Would you stay in a country you where you had no rights or access to work or education?

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    I'd just also like to point out that the stats for the past few years are that 90% of people arriving by boat are found to be genuine asylum seekers.

    The government has had a hold on processing claims for 11 months (only restarting this month). Since August last year, asylum seekers have not had their claims heard so we actually have no idea whether they are genuine refugees or just 'searching for a first world lifestyle.' But going from recent years my opinion would be that more will be found to be genuine than not.

    Also, a majority of Australia's asylum seekers are from Afghanistan and Sri Lanka.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    Can I give you a scenario? An Iranian went to the airport. There were numerous countries available for him to fly to. He chose Indonesia out of all of the options. Then, boarded a boat to Australia with the aid of a smuggler.
    He claimed that he could not stay in Indonesia because his 'freedom was threatened'.

    hence why they are country shopping, he could have jumped on a plain to Turkey, who is a signatory and safe.
    This is the precises reasons, Afghans can't get processed in Turkey, cause in order to do so, they have to arrive in Iran first, and Turkey would be third country of arrival.
    Unless ALL recent Iranian refugees are GAY, the fact that they had a passport to start with, shows they are not on government's hit list, cause the right to hold a passport is one of the first things people lose in there, except for religious minorities who are not allowed to be issued with one, let alone lose it.

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    90% of all boat people are found to be genuine refugees. Are you honestly trying to imply that they are somehow pulling the wool over the governments eyes. Or that you somehow know more about than the immigration dept? I assure you, the process is very thorough, uses many, many different agencies - including ASIO etc. And if there is any doubt at all, then they don't get granted a visa - thus why we have people in detention long term.

    Whether you agree with how they got here or not is irrelevant, if they get granted refugee status it is for good reason.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fairyfloss View Post
    hence why they are country shopping, he could have jumped on a plain to Turkey, who is a signatory and safe.
    This is the precises reasons, Afghans can't get processed in Turkey, cause in order to do so, they have to arrive in Iran first, and Turkey would be third country of arrival.
    Unless ALL recent Iranian refugees are GAY, the fact that they had a passport to start with, shows they are not on government's hit list, cause the right to hold a passport is one of the first things people lose in there, except for religious minorities who are not allowed to be issued with one, let alone lose it.

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    90% of boat people being genuine refugees, does not contradict my point. Not everyone on the boat are Iranian refugees.


 

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