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  1. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    People keep saying the real drain is visa overstayers rather than boat arrivals. Its funny, I've taken this on board before understanding that the number is greater. I've also watched people insinuate people dont worry about the visa overstayers, because they're white, and therefore racist.

    What I want to know is how do the visa overstayers drain the country? As far as I know they won't qualify for CL payments, and therefore aren't most of them working and therefore contributing to the economy?
    I can only answer for me here but I tend to bring up this issue when people continue the argument of 'illegal arrivals', visa overstayers are the 'illegals' as it were.

    Also, will they may contribute in some fashion to the economy, through personal spending, most would be working cash in hand and not paying tax. Some even send money earned back home.

    If you have time for some reading, I think the Howell Review covers some of the issues with this.

    ETA: I think the highest number of visa overstayers is now from China. This has changed from the previous Western nationals in the last 3 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    People keep saying the real drain is visa overstayers rather than boat arrivals. Its funny, I've taken this on board before understanding that the number is greater. I've also watched people insinuate people dont worry about the visa overstayers, because they're white, and therefore racist.

    What I want to know is how do the visa overstayers drain the country? As far as I know they won't qualify for CL payments, and therefore aren't most of them working and therefore contributing to the economy?
    I know of a few businesses in Melbourne that prefer to hire people on a semi illegal basis. So if someone has a student visa they can only work x amount of hours or they get deported so the business has them on the books they only work that x and then they pay them y cash in hand and they dont tax them.

    Other businesses hire people with no working visas, pay them a very low wage (11ish p/h) and pay them cash in hand so no tax is paid by them. They don't even visa check the people.

    The people who work with no visa/limited visa mainly only contribute in buying things in Aus but not through paying tax on their earnings.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using The Bub Hub mobile app

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    Working cash in hand and not paying tax. Not paying for visas etc etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    People keep saying the real drain is visa overstayers rather than boat arrivals. Its funny, I've taken this on board before understanding that the number is greater. I've also watched people insinuate people dont worry about the visa overstayers, because they're white, and therefore racist.

    What I want to know is how do the visa overstayers drain the country? As far as I know they won't qualify for CL payments, and therefore aren't most of them working and therefore contributing to the economy?

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  7. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    Well since we created a lot of the issues when we started the war, I'd say it is well and truly our business.
    Good point.

    The Convention was established in 1951 as a global response to the persecution and mass displacement of people after World War II. The basis for the Convention was a shared responsibility to a global crisis. Fast forward to today. There are currently over 893,000 asylum seekers and 15.4 million refugees globally - the highest in 18 years. 23,000 people are forced to flee their home daily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    Well since we created a lot of the issues when we started the war, I'd say it is well and truly our business.
    Which war are you referring to that 'we' started?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirst33 View Post

    You missed the point of my link though, to demonstrate that Malaysia, like Indonesia isn't really the safest place in the world either.

    .
    I got your point. I just don't agree 100%. Anyone can take a few incidents and hot spots and spin it. Sabah isn't safe to go to now so that means Malaysia is screwed (funny thing... Sabah was safe enough when you went though). With all the shootings in Sydney and rapes in Melbourne, does that mean Australia is screwed? And we would be negligent if we accepted refugees? America has one of the highest per capita rates of murder (beats Malaysia hands down) yet no one whines about the US taking in refugees.

    Spin spin spin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    People keep saying the real drain is visa overstayers rather than boat arrivals. Its funny, I've taken this on board before understanding that the number is greater. I've also watched people insinuate people dont worry about the visa overstayers, because they're white, and therefore racist.

    What I want to know is how do the visa overstayers drain the country? As far as I know they won't qualify for CL payments, and therefore aren't most of them working and therefore contributing to the economy?
    One example I can give- I knew a company that employed 15-20 people on the books, yet had over 50-70 staff. Basically, several people worked under one legit name. They averaged 60-70 hour working weeks (manual labour type work) and also did piecework where they were paid for assembling items per completed item outside of work hours. So one worker would have quite a good paycheck, which was then shared amongst several actual people. These workers often lived in small houses or flats with multiple others, slept in shifts etc So rent was minimal. Much of their wages were sent offshore, and the same people often shared a Medicare card too, so more than one person was receiving free medical care they were not entitled to, plus subsidised meds etc ( visiting multiple medical centres obviously).
    In this particular case, the company was raided by immigration. People were deported etc. but from what I understand, these arrangements are not unique.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I got your point. I just don't agree 100%. Anyone can take a few incidents and hot spots and spin it. Sabah isn't safe to go to now so that means Malaysia is screwed (funny thing... Sabah was safe enough when you went though). With all the shootings in Sydney and rapes in Melbourne, does that mean Australia is screwed? And we would be negligent if we accepted refugees? America has one of the highest per capita rates of murder (beats Malaysia hands down) yet no one whines about the US taking in refugees.

    Spin spin spin.
    Touché.

    But...
    Refugees in the US would be protected and have rights, they wouldn't in Malaysia. Because Malaysia is not a signatory they can deport refugees back to their country, signatories of the convention cannot send refugees back, they are obligated to protect them and offer them rights. I would harbor to guess that a refugee that is the victim of a crime in the US would be protected by and benefit from aspects of our justice system as opposed to in Indonesia or Malaysia where they are considered an illegal immigrant and would risk being deported back to a country they fled from should they go to authorities or the hospital.

    And yes, when we went to Sabah a few years ago we researched and were confident we would be ok if we stuck to the main tourist areas, as is the case with many Southeast Asia destinations that I personally wouldn't consider safe to relocate to but would visit.
    Last edited by Kirst33; 22-07-2013 at 20:31.

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    Last edited by Kirst33; 22-07-2013 at 20:34.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirst33 View Post
    Now that's a bit more bloody like it!

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