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  1. #281
    SpecialPatrolGroup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsoptomistic View Post
    I just worry for the future of this country when there is already so much poverty, violence and 3rd world conditions in our own backyard, not to mention the stress of additional unwanted population on the healthcare and other systems and the environment. Charity begins at home, before opening our arms to support others, we should ensure our current residents are cared for and news flash - They are not, and it's only going to get worse.
    I geniunely think this is off the mark. Do you really think that if we closed our borders that other social issues would be resolved? Binge drinking is not something that is happening because of asylum seekers. The very serious issues in many indigenous communities are far more complex than you may realise. Domestic violence, problem gambling, problem drug use??? Sorry, I think that these problems are far more involved and they will not be resolved by making Australia an insular nation that does not live up to the global responsibilities that come with being a part of the global community.

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  3. #282
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    We do have problems here, and we should absolutely try and address them, but personally for me, that doesn't have to mean that we shouldn't help desperate people from other countries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsoptomistic View Post
    I just worry for the future of this country when there is already so much poverty, violence and 3rd world conditions in our own backyard, not to mention the stress of additional unwanted population on the healthcare and other systems and the environment. Charity begins at home, before opening our arms to support others, we should ensure our current residents are cared for and news flash - They are not, and it's only going to get worse.
    I don't disagree with what you're saying in terms of looking after various groups of disadvantaged people but this is not an either or situation, we have legal obligations as signatories to the Refugee Convention.

    We do not have a refugee crisis that is draining our resources.

    This is a 1.30min interview this morning with Prof. James Hathaway - an expert on international refugee law globally. Click on the green play button to listen.

    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/...action/4834560
    Dr James Hathaway, an expert on international refugee law, told RN Breakfast that Kevin Rudd’s announcement on Friday was entirely unprecedented.

    ‘This plan is without question the most bizarre overreaction I have seen in more than 30 years of working on refugee law,’ said Dr Hathaway. ‘It just makes no sense.'

    ‘What is really striking about this is that Australia, unlike any developed country that I know, has been attracting almost exclusively genuine refugees as boat arrivals,’ Dr Hathaway told RN.
    ‘It’s the boat people who seem to have attracted his ire. It’s the most extraordinarily bizarre singling out of the group that...ought to be the very group that we should care about the most,’ he said.


    ‘So Australia does not have an asylum problem, it has a political problem, and refugees are being made to pay the price for Kevin Rudd wanting to appear, I think, more butch that Julia Gillard and more reactionary than Tony Abbott.’

    ‘The people who are so desperate—who so fear for their loss of life that they’re prepared to put their fate into the hands of smugglers and take a horrible boat journey to survive—are the very ones that Australia seems to want to punish.’

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  6. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Yeah you're right re the bleeding heart comments. I 100% agree everyone should be able to have their 2 cents on here. I suppose I have lost my patience with the majority BH's who time after time sit in their "I am right" throne and are guilty of exactly what they are accusing others of (not willing to understand others views, looking at something with blinkers on, using biased information, not listening wah wah wah ..)

    And this post is a perfect example. Assuming your knowledge and interpretation of what's going on is the only correct view. And assuming that because I don't agree with you 100%, I haven't listened or whatever it is you were getting at.

    To clarify: I don't think the PNG solution is an awesome one. I just happen to be tossing up whether the short term costs are worth the long term benefits. And I don't think having detainees wait for years in detention centres is very humane at all. I just have a differing opinion on some of the peripheral issues.

    Nice link on Sabah by the way. Newsflash. Anyone who travels to Malaysia would have to be a di@k to go to that region, the dangers are nothing new. The Asylum seekers and people smugglers aren't dumb, when they enter Malaysia (with their passports) they fly in via KL not Sabah.
    When it comes to your comments on them staying in Indonesia and your generalizations of the people who make it to Indonesia and then arrive by boat, you're right, I think you're wrong. You are wrong about Indonesia, not because of your opinion but because you are continually ignoring the FACTS about the circumstances asylum seekers face there. In general, I think it's wrong to assume and generalize the circumstances and resources of thousands of people--so that's why I think you're wrong on your other comments. I'm entitled to my opinion on thinking your comments are right or wrong

    Biased information???? Where has my info been biased? Reading links from refugee organizations and the UNHCR are biased? What do they have to gain by being biased? But right-wing commentators or the main****** media isn't? Hmmmmmm.... And the info that is posted that is more empathetic of asylum seekers, why is that biased? What is trying to be gained?

    I must be a 'd@ck' by the way. I spent three weeks in Sabah. I have a thing for orang-utans. Fortunately it was considered safe when we travelled there. But in general, many places like this are fairly safe when you're a tourist, staying at specific resorts and areas.

    You missed the point of my link though, to demonstrate that Malaysia, like Indonesia isn't really the safest place in the world either. And again, Malaysia like Indonesia is not a signatory of the convention, which means when asylum seekers arrive they have no rights or protection.

    Did you read Najeeba's story above? It's a great insight on how and why asylum seekers arrive in Indonesia and get on a boat to Australia.
    Last edited by Kirst33; 22-07-2013 at 18:45.

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    Last edited by Kirst33; 22-07-2013 at 19:32.

  9. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialPatrolGroup View Post
    I geniunely think this is off the mark. Do you really think that if we closed our borders that other social issues would be resolved? Binge drinking is not something that is happening because of asylum seekers. The very serious issues in many indigenous communities are far more complex than you may realise. Domestic violence, problem gambling, problem drug use??? Sorry, I think that these problems are far more involved and they will not be resolved by making Australia an insular nation that does not live up to the global responsibilities that come with being a part of the global community.
    I am saying we should be putting our resources into tackling our own issues before opening our arms to a whole new set of 'complex issues' - not unreasonable I don't think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsoptomistic View Post
    I am saying we should be putting our resources into tackling our own issues before opening our arms to a whole new set of 'complex issues' - not unreasonable I don't think.
    Well since we created a lot of the issues when we started the war, I'd say it is well and truly our business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsoptomistic View Post
    I am saying we should be putting our resources into tackling our own issues before opening our arms to a whole new set of 'complex issues' - not unreasonable I don't think.
    We are global citizens and are signed up signatories to the Refugee Convention.

    We have a legal and moral responsiblity as one of the wealthiest nations on the planet to be humanitarian leaders not international pariahs.

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  14. #289
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    Completely disengaging ourselves from global engagement is not wise. Sure we have problems here but we will have greater problems if we do nothing in the world.

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  16. #290
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    People keep saying the real drain is visa overstayers rather than boat arrivals. Its funny, I've taken this on board before understanding that the number is greater. I've also watched people insinuate people dont worry about the visa overstayers, because they're white, and therefore racist.

    What I want to know is how do the visa overstayers drain the country? As far as I know they won't qualify for CL payments, and therefore aren't most of them working and therefore contributing to the economy?

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