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  1. #191
    Ana Gram's Avatar
    Ana Gram is offline 2008 WINNER - straight shooter award
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    I agree with babyla. This 'bleeding heart' (honestly VP it is difficult to take you seriously when you start with the name calling) has spent the last 3.5 years at uni with this as one of my topics. That is hours and hours of research, reading and trawling through international and national laws.

    Also, you must take things written by the government with a grain of salt. Things are not always as they seem. Documents are usually written in a way to make issues more palatable to the public who they want to vote for them. Like foreign aid, for instance. Both sides of government would like the public to think that our aid is for humanitarian purposes when most of it isn't.


    Honestly, there is no solution to this. The only way to stop the huge numbers of refugees and asylum seekers worldwide is to stop the issues they are running from. And that just isn't going to happen.

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  3. #192
    Ana Gram's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairyfloss View Post
    They have a option of being resettled in a third country like New Zealand.
    Could you provide the reference for this please, I would like to read it as it is something I am also very concerned about.

  4. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyla View Post
    She also doesn't have complete authority on the subject as none of us do.
    When did claim that? I was just sharing my experience

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  6. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairyfloss View Post
    First of all I am/was Iranian refugee getting processed in Turkey, ie; country of first asylum, unlike some I didn't just jump on a plane and cherry pick my destination, I was happy to be sent anywhere, as long as I didn't have the death sentence that awaits me in my country of birth.

    Second, how about you have a quick read of the government's website where they admit to queue jumping. let me quote.
    " in 2011–12, 51 per cent of the 13 759 grants were to onshore IMA and non-IMA applicants."

    here is why its queue jumping.
    Since 1996, the onshore and offshore components of Australia’s Refugee and Humanitarian Program have been numerically linked. This means that every time an onshore applicant is granted a Protection Visa, a place is deducted from the offshore program. By making Australia’s resettlement quota to resettlement contingent on the number of onshore visas granted, the policy reduces the already limited opportunities for resettlement.

    please tell me if you end up with let's say 500 files on your desk, how do you exactly process them all, without making some sort of a natural queue? it gets worse since those files are not sorted by application date.

    if there truly are no queues how do you explain the length of time onshore applicants spend in waiting, vs the time offshore ones do.

    I am not saying anything about other countries, but Iranian have a choice to go to a signatory country of first asylum, yet they don't cause the large portion of them get sent to Canada and USA, where the weather and government support is not as readily available as here. USA will only allow 6 months of welfare payment, their Univesities costs heaps more, unless you have a job and private health, you have no medical support. Canada doesn't fair much better either.

    If they are not shopping for their desired country, then it should not matter which country they go to, since even with the PNG option, they can be settled in a third country and not necessarily in PNG.

    I am not saying they don't have a right to apply for protection, all i am saying is that we should de-link the number policy, so method of arrival does not advantage/disadvantage those with heaps of money to spare and buy their country of choice verses those playing by rules.
    If you know the history in Australia of the term queue jumper you will know why it is on a government website - in 1996 there was an election and a previous government coined this term to win votes. Before 1996 this term was not used, it is a political party line not a reality for the refugees world wide. Read the article from Julian Burnside as he explains it much better than I can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairyfloss View Post
    When did claim that? I was just sharing my experience
    I didn't say you did. I was replying to VPs post.

  8. #196
    SpecialPatrolGroup's Avatar
    SpecialPatrolGroup is offline T-rex is cranky until she gets her coffee.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    If you look at the refugee program in isolation your post may be technically correct. However if you look at it in conjunction with the Special Humanitarian Program it is misleading.

    * asylum seekers that arrive here via boats do take limited places away from others in need who can't afford to pay people smugglers. The number of special humanitarian program visa places is limited each year. The more onshore arrivals... The less places are available for offshore applicants.
    http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publica...info-sheet.pdf
    http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/60refugee.htm

    * People within their native country can still be considered for resettlement within Australia via the special humanitarian visa subclass 201
    http://www.immi.gov.au/visas/humanitarian/offshore/201/
    But that is an error in the way Australia administers the intake. Other countries do not count on shore arrivals in the same basket like Australia does. That systems seems like it was designed to create dissention.


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  11. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ana Gram View Post
    Could you provide the reference for this please, I would like to read it as it is something I am also very concerned about.
    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1226682507590

    half a way through the page, it reads
    "
    In the first test of the plan to send all boat arrivals to PNG, a boat carrying 81 suspected asylum seekers was intercepted off Christmas Island yesterday.
    They will be taken to the island for health checks and processing, before the single adult males are flown to PNG.

    If they are found to be refugees they will be settled in PNG or a third country.

    The government will not send women or children to Manus Island until suitable accommodation is built, and it will not split up families, so only single adult males will be transported to Manus Island."

  12. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ana Gram View Post

    Also, you must take things written by the government with a grain of salt. Things are not always as they seem. Documents are usually written in a way to make issues more palatable to the public who they want to vote for them. Like foreign aid, for instance. Both sides of government would like the public to think that our aid is for humanitarian purposes when most of it isn't.
    I agree with this, if it's on a government website, it is there to support government policy. I think it's important to look at viewpoints which are from a range of sources because it's those sources which don't have an election to win, I'm talking about social commentators, academics and researchers which have this as their area of expertise and don't have an agenda.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I don't think it is at all. Half the asylum seekers coming via boats already have family in Australia that help arrange the travel. They have phone calls until just before departure. The news is going to get out. And stop the boats.
    In all honesty VP as my post has been claimed to be a broad assumption by father, so is this comment. You're assuming you know and understand why people get on boats and what their resources are. Of course this may be the situation for some, but it also MAY NOT be the situation for MANY.

    I based my opinion mostly on the people smuggling problem between the USA and Mexico. America is continually coming up with policies to try to control the flow of migrants but yet in 2010 the people smuggling business in Mexico was estimated to be a $6.6 BILLION industry! We only have estimates of how many people die trying to make it to America because the simple fact is that many migrants die whose bodies we never discover and have no idea they attempted the journey in the first place.

    The only way to 'stop the boats,' is in a perfect world, to be able to eliminate the 'push' factors that have so many people needing to escape their countries.

    I think many of us appreciate fairy floss' story and she is definitely allowed an opinion on the subject based on her experience. But she still made broad generalizations of all asylum seekers that didn't choose to or were unable to take the route towards a better life that she did.
    Last edited by Kirst33; 21-07-2013 at 11:44.

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